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Old 21-08-2012, 07:16   #91
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

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Originally Posted by capta View Post
Having been in command of freighters, 50+ feet off the water on the bridge, I can tell you for a fact that you may not be easily seen.
Back when I was young and could See well. I was in the navy serving on the USS Midway as a Radar Tech. One day we were out in the mid ocean some where near Vietnam, when I walked out of the radar room. Off the starboard beam I saw a pile of trash floating on the sea. It looked rather insignificant as I looked at it from 100 feet above the water. Fortunately the signalmans' big-eye binoculars were mounted nearby. As I trained these on the trash, I discovered that it was actually a fishing boat, probably 40 foot long. So, I'll agree with the captain, you are not easily seen.
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Old 21-08-2012, 08:06   #92
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
I understand what you are trying to accomplish, but the terminology is not new. I even used old terms as jack dale pointed out. The colregs have used stand on and giveway since around 2004???
Not being picky, but the 1972 Colregs came into force in 1977, so give way and stand on terms have been in use since then.

The previous 1960 col regs make no mention of burdened and privileged vessels, only that one vessel keeps out of the way of the other.

Incidentally, as a skipper of a large tug boat, I'd be happy for you all to follow the collregs when risk of collision exists. If you want to take action before a risk of collision exists, thats fine.
If you are a stand on vessel where risk of collision exists, and the give way vessel does not take appropriate action, then you take action.
Its in the regs, I dont think they were written by numpties, and it would be nice if all on the water not only knew the regs, but understand them as well.

Anyone in the southern north sea, keep a good watch for big blue tug towing a 20,000 tonne lay barge, I'll be displaying red white red, and ball diamond ball, so unless your NUC, please keep clear.

Have a safe watch
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Old 21-08-2012, 08:39   #93
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

it always amazes me when people start quoting the rules and the post is longer than the rule chapter in question

Of course I also sometimes get amazed that people would stand on because they have the "rules" on their side and put themselves into harms way regardless. Kind of like cutting off ones nose to spite their face.
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Old 21-08-2012, 08:58   #94
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
stevenuf

Sounds like he considered himself as the overtaking boat. The Regs then sya you should maintain course and speed. It is his problem to get around you. When you then changed source, he had to take evasive action adn then one more time. Assuming he was an overtaking boat - no wonder he threw up his hands in disgust
If he was not overtaking (being SLIGHTLY aft of the beam, not 22.5 degrees), he was the stand-on vessel.
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Old 21-08-2012, 09:00   #95
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

but were they anchored??
isnt this thread spozed to be about anchoring etiquette?
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Old 21-08-2012, 09:37   #96
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
isnt this thread spozed to be about anchoring etiquette?
Thanks, Zee.

I just read this entire thread after two weeks off-line and on-the-hook. Isn't anchoring out supposed to be relaxing?

Back to the OP. The bottom line here is that putting out an anchor buoy in instances where it isn't absolutely needed is bad manners. Unless you're anchoring in rocks where a trip line is necessitated, it's just a method of marking turf, like a dog peeing on a fire hydrant.

Some boaters seem to be assuming that just because they've got their turf marked with an anchor buoy they now deserve special treatment. Judging from the original post on this thread, that strategy doesn't work at all. It never has, and it never will.

I've noticed that a lot of the boaters who use anchor buoys tend to be the same folks who insist on 15:1 scope in benign situations. What ends up happening is that the anchor buoy is so far away from the bow that it doesn't occur to most passers by that this buoy belongs to that boat.

Of course, half the folks out there using anchor buoys are doing so because they have no reliable way, otherwise, of determining how much scope they have out.

I've been anchoring out somewhere in excess of 75 nights per year for decades, and it's been at least 20 years since a passing boat has snagged my rode. If this is happening to the OP multiple times in a given weekend, then he's flat-out doing something wrong. Getting rid of the anchor buoy would be a good first step toward figuring out how to anchor correctly.
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Old 21-08-2012, 09:42   #97
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

Bash

A nice succinct post that cover the OPs concerns very well.

Now if we can just get folks not to set out crab traps in the middle of anchorages.

Jack
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Old 21-08-2012, 09:53   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale
Bash

A nice succinct post that cover the OPs concerns very well.

Now if we can just get folks not to set out crab traps in the middle of anchorages.

Jack
LOL I was just thinking that around here everyone would assume some jerk put a crab trap in the middle of the anchorage. I've never seen an anchor buoy here.

Somebody would probably try to pull it up in the middle of the night to steal the crabs
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Old 21-08-2012, 10:06   #99
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

Actually you don't need a bouy to have a trip line. Attach your trip line to the anchor and the other end further up the rode(distance at a few feet more than the water depth.) when you haul in the rode, the trip line shows up befoe you have pulle the rode taut. Now you can use the trip. There is almost never any use for a trip line buoy. Use non-floating line for the piece of trip
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Old 21-08-2012, 10:17   #100
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

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Originally Posted by stevensuf View Post
The other day I was passing the front of a harbour, about a mile outside, i notice a large power boat coming towards me on starboard, i watch him , he will pass behind me, ok no, he has changed course, so i revved up the engine to clear him, and he alters course yet again to pass on front, by the time he reaches me he had to drop out of plane, he throws his arms in the air , mumbling stuff in french i cant reply to,now i should give way to a degree , but he was slightly aft starboard, doing 30 plus knots and me only able to do 7, so who was in the wrong?
There's a bit of a judgement call involved in such situations, but given what you've written, it sounds to me like you both made mistakes, but yours were the larger ones.

He was coming in from your starboard. He was going to pass to your stern, though, so no crossing situation existed in your judgement. You took no action. Now, if it was to be a close pass, then maybe your judgement was different than his. If so, he should have maintained his course and speed as the stand-on vessel. But he didn't. He changed course to create a collion situation. I think this was a mistake on his part.

However, once he'd done that, then he was approaching from starboard and so he was the stand-on vessel. You need to make an early and obvious correction to not only avoid the collision, but to make it obvious to the other captain that you are taking action. A sailboat is just too slow and too heavy for a change in revs on your engine to make an "early and obvious" change. The safest course of action is always to allow him to pass in front by altering your course to the right as well as slowing down if necessary to make sure that it is now obvious to him that he will pass in front of you and you are giving way.

By the way, this is the classic situation we've been talking about where the stand-on vessel can confuse things and create a dangerous situation by not standing on. If you go for his transom and he for yours, you'll hit eachother.
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Old 21-08-2012, 10:25   #101
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

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Originally Posted by stevensuf View Post
The other day I was passing the front of a harbour, about a mile outside, i notice a large power boat coming towards me on starboard, i watch him , he will pass behind me, ok no, he has changed course, so i revved up the engine to clear him, and he alters course yet again to pass on front, by the time he reaches me he had to drop out of plane, he throws his arms in the air , mumbling stuff in french i cant reply to,now i should give way to a degree , but he was slightly aft starboard, doing 30 plus knots and me only able to do 7, so who was in the wrong?
Except for the French, this happens more often than not in the PNW.


To top it all off, as they pass your bow within a couple of boat lengths collapsing your chute in the light air, they WAVE !
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Old 21-08-2012, 10:33   #102
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

When sailing or anchoring near an island that is a base for bareboat charters, caution must be excersied for those who alter course for the opertunity to yell "starboard".
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Old 21-08-2012, 10:57   #103
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Bash

A nice succinct post that cover the OPs concerns very well.

Now if we can just get folks not to set out crab traps in the middle of anchorages.

Jack
Or lobster traps and in the middle of the channel, especially just in front of the draw bridge.
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Old 21-08-2012, 15:46   #104
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
You're right. We sailboats are just the same as any other engine vessel when under mechanical power.

But in addition, the sailboat does not always have right of way. Cruise ships have the right of way, as do freighters, because they really aren't very maneuverable. I would get the heck out of the way of a ferry as well and would not assume they had more maneuverability than me.
...
Can you quote the section of the Colregs that says that cruise ships and freighters have the right of way (other than constrained by draught or in a designated shipping lane)?

Not talking about prudence or the ultimate responsibility of all skippers to avoid a collision, just talking about actual right of way (ie boat under sail is burdenned and freighter is stand-on).
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Old 21-08-2012, 16:54   #105
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Re: Anchored Vessels' Etiquette

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Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
Can you quote the section of the Colregs that says that cruise ships and freighters have the right of way (other than constrained by draught or in a designated shipping lane)?

Not talking about prudence or the ultimate responsibility of all skippers to avoid a collision, just talking about actual right of way (ie boat under sail is burdenned and freighter is stand-on).
From a Linkedin discussion

Quote:
Rule 28 (from Canadian ColRegs)

Notwithstanding paragraph (a), in the Canadian waters of a
roadstead, harbour, river, lake or inland waterway, no vessel
shall exhibit three all-round red lights in a vertical line or a
cylinder.

I assume this to mean no CBD.
An explanation

Quote:
Ship Safety Bulletin 04/1977 clarifies ( <grin>) the situation. i.e.

" Rule 28 states that a vessel constrained by her draft may...exhibit where they can best be seen three all-round red lights In a vertical line, or a cylinder.

The Coast Guard has been requested to define more precisely what ships should comply and under what condition.

Only the courts can interpret legislation, therefore, the following comments should be regarded as the views of the Coast Guard and may not necessarily be those which would be taken by a court of law.

Many views were expressed during the course of the 1972 conference which devised the revised rules. However, there was general agreement that the purpose of the signal was to warn other vessels that the vessel exhibiting it was severely restricted in its ability to deviate from the course it was following in an area where other vessels may not fully appreciate these circumstances.

The North Sea is an example of such an area. Vessels not normally restricted by their drafts may not appreciate the manoeuvring restrictions that a larger vessel would give way when in fact It could not. This could have serious consequences.

In narrow channels or fairways within Canadian waters, the well established practice of skilful and careful persons engaged in navigation is to take into consideration the navigational factors related to these areas such as shoal water and current as limitations of the vessels involved.

In summary, mariners can expect as a matter of course that other vessels in narrow channels or fairways may be restricted in their ability to manoeuvre and comply with the rules, whereas in more open waters this is less likely to be apparent. It is for the latter areas that Rule 28 was established and prolific use of the signal would not appear to provide increased safety. "


In other words, in Canadian waters all large vessels are deemed to be constrained by their draft......
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