Anchor types and General questions

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Tkeeth

The spade performed well at that instance, but I have had hell getting it to set and it has dragged on me a few times in much less harsh conditions. That's why I am really not that attached to it. I am about 50/50 fixing the spade or replacing with Mantus.

For others reading this, it is important to emphasise that Tkeeth is talking about the ALUMINIUM Spade. The aluminium version is a good anchor, but does not have the performance or the strength of the steel Spade.

While the aluminium Spade does not have the brilliance of the steel version, it is still a much better anchor in my view than the Delta (especially a Delta copy) or the CQR. If you purchase one of these anchors you are likely to struggle more. In my view, the Mantus is a much better anchor than the aluminium Spade and will be a noticeable upgrade if the budget will stretch.

Spade now offer a lifetime warranty on all anchors that covers bending. The warranty does not cover transport costs. Delivery costs can be significant, but should not be excessive for an aluminium shank, so contact Spade (you can send a private message on this forum) before deciding.

[waterman46]

Every time the forum hosts an anchor discussion the good old CQR must be bashed. Real life experiences don't seem to correlate well to testing performed by those who may profit from the published results. On our heavy Morgan 46 with its large cockpit enclosure and windage, we use a 60 lb (genuine) CQR in all situations over 22 years from San Francisco to Acapulco. Mud, sand, rocks, winds to 30 knots and some big chop. Always sets first time and never dragged. If you are not on a budget then you may feel better with one of the newer designs.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Every time the forum hosts an anchor discussion the good old CQR must be bashed. Real life experiences don't seem to correlate well to testing performed by those who may profit from the published results. On our heavy Morgan 46 with its large cockpit enclosure and windage, we use a 60 lb (genuine) CQR in all situations over 22 years from San Francisco to Acapulco. Mud, sand, rocks, winds to 30 knots and some big chop. Always sets first time and never dragged. If you are not on a budget then you may feel better with one of the newer designs.

This is a very good point.

Many times on these anchor threads I mention the CQR that came with my $2,000 good old boat. (estate sale)

It could be that if you paid $400.00 plus for an anchor how could an old anchor that came with a $2,000 boat really work?

Actually it was one of 5 anchors that came with the boat ......but whose counting.

Anyway, I was looking at the anchor today which is an original CQR with patent number on it. It is well worn and elongated where the swivel shaft is

This anchor has been my insurance as I have been learning this cruising business for the last 6 years going away from racing beach cats for 15 years where I never anchored. (although I did anchor my other 6 or so power boats while fishing)


And the anchor has never dragged or come off the bottom

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This is a very good point.

Many times on these anchor threads I mention the CQR that came with my $2,000 good old boat. (estate sale)

It could be that if you paid $400.00 plus for an anchor how could an old anchor that came with a $2,000 boat really work?

Actually it was one of 5 anchors that came with the boat ......but whose counting.

Anyway, I was looking at the anchor today which is an original CQR with patent number on it. It is well worn and elongated where the swivel shaft is

This anchor has been my insurance as I have been learning this cruising business for the last 6 years going away from racing beach cats for 15 years where I never anchored. (although I did anchor my other 6 or so power boats while fishing)


And the anchor has never dragged or come off the bottom

They still work fine, as do many of the other maligned types. It's just that more technique is involved with them, & sometimes they're more finicky about bottom types. But it ain't nothing worth fretting over.

BTW, some of your shackle mousing seems to have gone missing. And is that 3/8" chain? It looks HUGE. Not that it matters

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

They still work fine, as do many of the other maligned types. It's just that more technique is involved with them, & sometimes they're more finicky about bottom types. But it ain't nothing worth fretting over.

BTW, some of your shackle mousing seems to have gone missing. And is that 3/8" chain? It looks HUGE. Not that it matters

I've been anchoring since I was 17 so maybe that has helped but with this boat .......

I'm indebted to the PO on all this. I've changed nothing as far as anchoring from his original setup

He was an old salt from Falmouth, MA

I took a chance and wrote the $2,000 check for this boat back in 2011. It was to be an education for me before my next boat

The shackles are still fine though I'm thinking along with the fact they have been in the same position for at least 11 years. I bought the boat after it had sat on the hard for 5 years and I've owned it for 6

Btw, it also came with a backup Bruce, new chain and 250' of rode or so


The PO didn't quite finish his return trip to MA after having cruised for two years in the Bahamas. It appears he really prepped the boat well before he left

[waterman46]

Is it possible for a CQR (or for any of those designs without roll bars) to land upside down or on its side? If so it seems it might just slide and never set. It's never happened to me that I am aware of, or if so it must have quickly turned right-side up when the rode came tight. Just wondering.

[Spindrift NH]

John Deere invented this device to move through the dirt with one horse, it wouldn't have gained so much popularity back then if it actually stopped the horse!
Notice that the direction of pull is probably greater than 7:1

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Spindrift NH

John Deere invented this device to move through the dirt with one horse, it wouldn't have gained so much popularity back then if it actually stopped the horse!

So True
.
.

[B00B00]

I have had Manson Supremes on my last 2 boats over the last 7 years and never dragged once.
15lb on a 3000kg 28fter and a 25lb on a 5000kg Jeanneau sunfast 3600. Both with the minimum chain for our regulations (1 boat length I think it is). Have sat out a few decent gales with the family on board and zero issues.
We also have 2 manson racers (lightweight) as backups and have used that a few times when in full race mode. Works good but you have to go real slow backwards to get it to dig in. With the lightness of it and the surface area it can easily just glide over the bottom if you back up too fast.

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Is it possible for a CQR (or for any of those designs without roll bars) to land upside down or on its side? If so it seems it might just slide and never set. It's never happened to me that I am aware of, or if so it must have quickly turned right-side up when the rode came tight. Just wondering.

Yes very much so. I've seen many a CQR, Delta, Bruce et al lying upside down in a mass of chain around the anchorages of Croatia. I've even seen my Vulcan do it due to a shackle issue (now corrected). This is one of the reasons I always try to swim over my anchor and have a look at it just to be sure it has dug in and set. Check out Noelex's thread "Photos of Anchors Setting" (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-126073.html) for glorious technicolor photos of anchors in various states of distress and examples of well set anchors too, oh and the odd mermaid

Keiron

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Spindrift NH

John Deere invented this device to move through the dirt with one horse, it wouldn't have gained so much popularity back then if it actually stopped the horse!
Notice that the direction of pull is probably greater than 7:1

So it's a good thing a CQR is like a double plow...

And btw, have you ever pulled a plow through the dirt?

The one I used to pull was a 7 bottom plow and the dual wheeled tractor with the 6 cylinder diesel definitely felt the strain when those 7 plow blades were lowered in the ground

https://www.google.com/search?q=7+bo...=1494930416317

[Spindrift NH]

Never with a horse but as a former ag teacher in New England I've had some experience with plows. So, if you're gonna use a plow style anchor you should use 7 of them?
My point is that by design they cleave the earth and slough it off to the side allowing the blade to continue to move through the earth. The new gen scoop style flukes penetrate and keep the substrate on the fluke adding resistance.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Spindrift NH

Never with a horse but as a former ag teacher in New England I've had some experience with plows. So, if you're gonna use a plow style anchor you should use 7 of them?
My point is that by design they cleave the earth and slough it off to the side allowing the blade to continue to move through the earth. The new gen scoop style flukes penetrate and keep the substrate on the fluke adding resistance.

My actual point was the CQR isn't like a farmers plow since it has two blades to give it more resistance to movement than a farmer's plow

And btw, I have yet to back down with my old, worn, CQR yet.

I drift set it or let it go while still coming to a stop at my anchorage. So far so good .......

I'd hate to see it come loose though in some of the onshore breezes I've been anchored in 70 yards from shore or 40 yards from 2' of depth above a marshy muddy bottom a mile or so offshore where you would sink up to your knees if you jumped overboard

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Is it possible for a CQR (or for any of those designs without roll bars) to land upside down or on its side? If so it seems it might just slide and never set. It's never happened to me that I am aware of, or if so it must have quickly turned right-side up when the rode came tight. Just wondering.

In very soft mud, it is certainly possible for any fixed-fluke type of anchor (roll-bar or non-roll bar) to have difficulty orienting to the fluke downward position if it lands on its side or upside down.

This is an advantage of the pivoting-fluke Danforth design, as there is no upside down position since the shank and flukes are movable.


As a side note, we are currently in the process of renewing our certifications with ABS and DNV GL, two of the world's largest maritime classification societies, which are defined as "a non-governmental organization that establishes and maintains technical standards for the construction and operation of ships and offshore structures."

When shopping for an anchor, I would recommend checking to see if the brand has any certifications from the above-mentioned organizations or from others such as Lloyd's Register, Bureau Veritas or RINA.

If they do, then suffice to say, you are better assured of a quality-made product. I believe that Lewmar (CQR, Delta) and Manson (Boss, Supreme) anchors have an approval with Lloyd's Register, and Anchor Right (Excel, Sarca) have met a high performance standard with their local marine safety committee in Australia.

I apologize if I overlooked others.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Fortress

When shopping for an anchor, I would recommend checking to see if the brand has any certifications from the above-mentioned organizations or from others such as Lloyd's Register, Bureau Veritas or RINA.

In my view, unfortunately, current anchor standards set the bar so low that they are largely useless. It seems to me that the primary effect is to cost anchor manufacturers a lot of money. These costs need to be passed on to the consumer.

When CQR and Delta anchors are issued certificates from a company like Lloyd’s that proclaim these designs as "high holding", in my opinion it is time for the standards to be overhauled.