Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 4.75 average. Display Modes
Old 08-08-2007, 19:33   #76
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man
If the sailboat was drifting at night without proper lights, they would not only be responsible for the accident, but also stupid.

If they had lost their electrics and could not display lights, use horns, flares, bells and get out of the way.
I'm with you.

When I picked up our current boat, the running lights weren't working and we needed to move it across San Diego Harbor at night, in the dead of winter. We went to WM, bought some flashlights and some replacement green and red lenses, and ghetto-rigged something that might not have been Coast Guard approved, but it was visible from a fair distance.

Being at the helm of a vessel is a lot of responsibility, and if you can't operate it safely, you shouldn't be doing it.

And a drunk owner in the cockpit; sounds like half the boats in this harbor.
__________________

__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 20:42   #77
Registered User
 
Knottygirlz's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Iroquois, Ontario
Boat: Sunray 25' KnottybuoyzII
Posts: 162
I, too, went looking for more balanced reporting of this incident. I founf these 2 articles:

http://lakeconews.com/content/view/964/554/

http://lakeconews.com/content/view/961/554/

It does not appear as if these charges were pulled out of a hat. The investigators reviewed Boating Law, talked to witnesses and asked the state Attorney Gerneral to review the case because there was a law enforecment official involved. It took several months to complete.




Lori
__________________

__________________
Knottygirlz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2007, 12:13   #78
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
From KGO-TV, a Special Report . . .

Last night, KGO-TV broadcast the first half of a special investigative report by Dan Noyes on this case.

"CLEAR LAKE, Calif., Aug. 11, 2007 (KGO) - Authorities in Lake County are being accused of trying to protect one of their own. The number two man in the Lake County Sheriff's Department was involved in a boating accident that killed a woman on Clear Lake, 50 miles north of Santa Rosa."

To read a transcript of the entire report, and/or watch a video re-broadcast, go to:

abc7news.com:

The second half of the report will be broadcast tonight.

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2007, 14:05   #79
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Here is a link to the second half of the KGO-TV special report by Dan Noyes on this case. Remember, you can click on the video link at the top/right and see an actual re-broadcast. Reading the transcript while the video plays can help make some of the audio much clearer.

abc7news.com:

Perhaps those who felt so strongly that the operator of the sailboat must bear complete responsibility for the fatality because the vessel's lights were off, will reconsider. Why? Because, as the report makes clear, at least two witnesses who saw that the vessel's lights were on could not get local law enforcement officials to take their statements.

Something's rotten in Clear Lake.

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2007, 18:31   #80
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Thanks for the links. Interesting reading and I am sure it will be important for all California boaters to pay attention to the outcome.

I still don't think that anyone, except perhaps Weber should be criminally charged. I hope that the evidence admitted in trial will be disbursed fairly and accurately. The good thing is the court has published proceedings and I hope will continue to do so.

I have done 5 commercial aircraft accident investigations over the last 15 years. One thing I can absoultely assure you is that eyewitness acounts of what happened are the most unreliable and incorrect record of what actually happened.

There is a psychology for this in that we as humans tend to fill in the memory blanks with what we "expect" to happen. I have had reports of fire when there was noe. I have had reports of aircraft speeds that were hundreds of miles per hour off base. I have had people report explosions that did not happen.

Weber was in the best position to properly operate the boat. I am not going to believe the lights were on after reports over a year ago said they weren't. Everyone is reading the media and I am sure there is a lot of sympathy for Darius. It's a crap position he's in.

It's a shame that Darious is in this position. I feel for the guy. Think hard before tillering someone else's boat, especially if you are drunk and violating the regs.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2007, 18:54   #81
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Quote:
Perhaps those who felt so strongly that the operator of the sailboat must bear complete responsibility for the fatality because the vessel's lights were off, will reconsider. Why?
Well, if the lights were indeed OFF, then that is reckless driving and pure stupidity.

If they were ON, then of course the picture is differnt.

Nothing have changed here except the that the facts or rumors keep changing.

1) If these guys went sailing with lights OFF at night, they should bear responsibilty for any collision.

2) If they went sailing with lights ON at night, they were in the right and somebody else should bear responsibilty.
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2007, 20:13   #82
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Hi Dan (Ex-Calif). I couldn't agree more with your observation about the reliability of some eye-witnesses. Some, though, are much better than others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif
I am not going to believe the lights were on after reports over a year ago said they weren't.
From watching the video re-broadcast of KGO's report, I think one gets a better feel for the veracity of the two witnesses that the Sheriff's Department wouldn't take statements from, as well as the DA, for that matter. Here, though, is the pertinent section from the transcript that deals with the two eye-witnesses.

"Prosecutor Jon Hopkins contends Bismarck Dinius should be found guilty of manslaughter because the sailboat's running lights were off at the time of the crash.

Dan Noyes: "You have, though, some conflicting testimony whether the lights were on or not."
Jon Hopkins, Lake County District Attorney: "No."
Dan Noyes: "There are several people who saw the lights on."
Jon Hopkins, Lake County District Attorney: "No, there are not."

In all, the I-Team's identified nine people, on the sailboat and on shore, who say the sailboat's running lights, cabin lights, or both were on."
[emphasis added]

Doug Jones, witness: "I saw clearly the cabin light and the stern light."

Doug Jones watched "Beats Workin' II" sail past his marina with lights on, before the crash. But when he spoke with a deputy sheriff the next morning, he says it seemed the case had already been solved.

Doug Jones, witness: "A deputy sheriff came over the following morning and told me that they had already proven that there were no lights on."
Dan Noyes: "The following morning?"
Doug Jones: "The following morning."
Dan Noyes: "That was fast."
Doug Jones: "At eight o'clock in the morning."

Worse still, Jones says the deputy refused to take his statement.

Doug Jones: "And at that point, I told him I saw the cabin and stern light."
Dan Noyes: "What did he say?"
Doug Jones: "You couldn't have."
Dan Noyes: "He said that you couldn't have."
Doug Jones: "I couldn't have and left."

Peter Elmer, retired police sergeant: "I think something's not right here."

Peter Elmer had the same experience. The retired police sergeant from East Bay Regional Parks oversaw the marine unit there. Elmer says he tried to tell the Lake County Sheriff's Department he spotted Perdock driving 50 miles an hour right before the crash, but claims they refused to take his statement, as well.

Peter Elmer, retired police sergeant: "I called back and said, 'listen, a deputy needs to come talk to us,' and they said, 'no, that's okay.' Well, putting that in perspective and the fact that he hasn't been charged, I thought something's not right here."

Dan Noyes: "Two witnesses who say they had firsthand knowledge of what happened say your deputies resisted taking their statements. From their perspective, it seems like you decided from the beginning that Russell Perdock could not be at fault. Your response to that?"
Rodney Mitchell, Lake County Sheriff: "I would ask you to identify who those people are who said that and then we'll follow up to make sure that's not the case."

After our interview, Sheriff Mitchell had his investigators contact Peter Elmer and Doug Jones -- their statements are now part of the case file."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif
I still don't think that anyone, except perhaps Weber should be criminally charged.
Well, if the lights were off or inoperable, then I agree that the boat's owner should bear at least some measure of responsibility. If they were on, however, then he isn't culpable in any way. At that point, he was no different than any of the other three guests who were merely passengers, and not operating the vessel. Drunk or sober, if the lights on his vessel were on, and he wasn't at the helm, then he's not at fault in the fatality in any way.

To me, the most incriminating point is that the investigating officers didn't draw blood from their colleague, the operator of the speedboat, until more than 24 hours after the accident.

From the KGO report:

"Russell Perdock's blood test came back clean, but the label on his blood sample shows he wasn't tested until more than 24 hours after the accident. A sheriff's deputy filed an addendum to say the technician had made a mistake -- Perdock really had his blood test 11:30 the night of the crash."
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man
Nothing have changed here except the that the facts or rumors keep changing.
I don't believe anything is changing, DH, certainly not the facts. As another member here quotes former Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts." In this instance, the facts are just beginning to see the light of day.

If anything has changed in the last year, it is that the carefully framed case the Clear Lake County Sheriff's Department and the Clear Lake County District Attorney cobbled together is beginning to crumble under the weight of intense public scrutiny.

As for DA Hopkins, I can't help thinking how much he reminds me of Mike Nifong.

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2007, 02:44   #83
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,583
Images: 240
From: The Innocence Project - Home

Government Misconduct
Some wrongful convictions are caused by honest mistakes. In some cases, however, officials take steps to ensure that a defendant is convicted despite weak evidence or even clear proof of innocence.
The cases of wrongful convictions uncovered by DNA testing are replete with evidence of fraud or misconduct by prosecutors or police departments.
innocenceproject.org/understand/Government-Misconduct.php
The Innocence Project - Understand the Causes: Forensic Science Misconduct

Eyewitness Misidentification
innocenceproject.org/understand/Eyewitness-Misidentification.php
The Innocence Project - Understand the Causes: Eyewitness Misidentification

Reforming Eyewitness Procedures Can Prevent Wrongful Convictions
More than 75% of wrongful convictions overturned by DNA were caused by eyewitness misidentification. A new article in a major journal says reforms to address this serious problem should be based on solid science.
innocenceproject.org/Content/800.php
The Innocence Project
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2007, 04:48   #84
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Quote:
I don't believe anything is changing, DH, certainly not the facts.
Okay, I will spell it out very slowly then:

1) It was said earlier that the sailboat was drifting without proper navigation ligths displayed.

2) It was said later that the sailboat was drifting with proper navigation lightst displayed.

The difference between the two is quite sicnificant and I have no clue why you don't think there is no difference since you said
Quote:
I don't believe anything is changing


The story is changing.
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2007, 09:01   #85
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man
Okay, I will spell it out very slowly then:

1) It was said earlier that the sailboat was drifting without proper navigation ligths displayed.

2) It was said later that the sailboat was drifting with proper navigation lightst displayed.

The difference between the two is quite sicnificant and I have no clue why you don't think there is no difference since you said

Quote:
I don't believe anything is changing


The story is changing.
You've missed my point completely, Dag, which is that the facts can't change. The vessel's lights were either on or off. Only one is factual, the other is false.

What is now emerging is that what was reported by the "investigators" (the Deputy's friends in the Lake County Sheriff's Department) last year as fact, may well have been a fabrication, and that statements by witnesses (nine, according to the KGO report) who say they saw the boat's lights illuminated were not taken by the "investigators" at the time and made a part of their accident report.

So the facts are what they are - they cannot change. We can only hope that all of the facts come to light, including police misconduct in suppressing and/or altering evidence to paint a picture that could send an innocent man to prison.

(By the way, despite spelling it out very slowly, your post contains three misspelled words, as well as a double negative in your last sentence "...don't think...no difference...". That's a fact. )

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2007, 09:26   #86
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale
Boat: 2001 Albin 28TE.
Posts: 3,399
Images: 115
Oh well, I tried.....
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
www.odincharters.com
www.susanhanssen.com
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2007, 15:07   #87
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
The Latest - August 27,2007 . . .

From today's 'Lectronic Latitude, comes word that the California Attorney General, Edmund Brown (yes, he's former Governor Edmund "Jerry" Brown), will not recuse the Lake County DA's office from trying the case:

"Motion to Recuse Failed

August 27 - San Francisco & Lake County

Edmund Brown, California's Attorney General, has officially stated his opposition to a motion filed by Bismarck Dinius's attorney to recuse Lake County's District Attorney Jon Hopkins from prosecuting the ridiculous manslaughter case against Dinius in the tragic death of Lynn Thornton."

For more, go to:

Latitude 38 - Northern California's Premier Sailing and Marine Magazine

And for those who don't know what this is about, and would like to catch up, here are the two links to the two-part KGO-TV story on the case:

Part One:

abc7news.com:

Part Two:

abc7news.com:

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2007, 17:35   #88
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Recusal doesn't mean that the charges against Dinius would be dropped.

Recusal goes to the limited issue of who prosecutes the case, not who is being prosecuted. Apparently, the defense counsel thinks that who is being prosecuted is tied up with who is doing the prosecuting; i.e., defense thinks the DA is protecting the deputy.

Obviously, the State Attorney General cannot agree with that proposition, as it would be an admission that his employees are abusing their discretion.

During the criminal trial the jury obviously will hear about the nine witnesses claiming the sailboat had lights on and their testimony about the motorboat speed. Imagine the egg on the DA's face if they fail to obtain a verdict against Dinius. There is the possilibity that the AG, Brown, in addition to showing support for his employees has also decided to let the DA lie in the bed that the DA's has made, viz., not give that DA's office the defense that it wasn't them who lost the prosecution against Dinius. If the criminal jury decides that Dinius committed no crime that bore a causal connection to the accident, the DA would have little choice but to indict the deputy (one would hope--or be voted out of office by an outraged community).

Brown's decision is what I would expect. Law enforcement always circle their wagons in these situations. But Brown's decision also forces the local DA's hand, quite possibly to the DA's detriment. I'll bet the DA was hoping that Brown WOULD recuse. Good on Brown. The local DA made this mess. Let'm live with it.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2007, 18:03   #89
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
In reading about how many of the citizens living in Lake County complain about how corrupt local law enforcement is,

abc7news.com I-Team: Lynn’s Story and Reaction,

I think I can confidently predict that charges against Dinius will be dropped on the eve of trial. The case is trumped up, will not survive a jury trial, and even the DA knows it. Brown knows it too.

Some of the witnesses who saw the running lights on the sailboat have written about what they saw in the blog. What's really sad is the fact that some of these witness approached the investigating team with their testimony, and the investigators refused to put their testamony in the report. Man, we are talking major bad apples. That county really is dirty.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2007, 18:21   #90
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
My favorite from the blog above:

"I'd like to make a few comments about boating conditions on Clear Lake at night. I am a long-time resident of Lake County, and I own and operate both a sailboat and a speed boat, and have been out on moonless nights in both vessels on a number of occasions on Clear Lake over the years. To my certain knowledge, it is extremely difficult to see other boats, even with their lights on. This is because of the stationary bright shore lights and automobile lights moving along Soda Bay Road and Highway 20, which appear much brighter than marine vessel running lights and which greatly obscure their visibility. Depth perception (which would normally enable one to identify the distance to another boat) is completely lacking, and without a comprehensive knowledge of the lake's topography, one cannot tell whether a black mass ahead is an unlighted island, a nearby barge, or a faraway unlighted shore line. Add to this the fact that any lights that are visible appear to dance around as one's vessel moves through the water, thus greatly impairing one's ability to keep a fix on another boat, lighted or unlighted. Because of these facts, it is extremely dangerous to travel at speed at night on Clear Lake, for fear of collision with another boat or a land mass, mandating that a prudent and safe speed is one that allows one to see objects clearly at least 10 boat-lengths ahead. Anyone who travels at speed at night on Clear Lake is willfully endangering themselves, their passengers, and any people or objects in their path. This is especially true of law-enforcement officers, who are sworn to protect, not endanger, the citizenry. If one's speed is such that when one first observes an object in one's path one has insufficient time to take evasive action to avoid a collision, then, perforce, one is traveling at excessive speed, and should be held culpable for any damages that ensue. Maritime law is also very clear: a sailboat, being the slower and less maneuverable, always has the right-of-way over a similar-sized motorboat, which must stay clear. Thus, the officer whose arrogant and reckless stupidity killed an innocent victim is doubly culpable and deserves to be fired and prosecuted for manslaughter, and the DA who performed such an outrageously unfair and incompetent investigation deserves to be fired and disbarred. Any legalistic flummery about questionable running lights or one or two beers over the limit makes a further mockery of our so-called justice system. The fact is, the cop was going way too fast and killed someone because of it."

Says it better than I ever could.
__________________

__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
california

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Harbors of Southern California Celestialsailor Liveaboard's Forum 17 26-07-2008 00:56
Wanted - Sailing from North California To Vancouver B.C areso70 Crew Archives 6 25-07-2008 23:18
Caribbean to California Passage planning help Limpet General Sailing Forum 23 08-01-2008 17:28
Anyone ever moved a large sailboat from California to Florida? Jolly Roger Cruising News & Events 4 13-05-2007 19:10
Liveaboards in California boatcruisers Meets & Greets 2 09-04-2007 14:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:02.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.