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**David M** · 15-08-2010, 13:54

I wouldn't rag on all cops. All professions have their bad apples that need to be weeded out.

Healer52 · 15-08-2010, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

I wouldn't rag on all cops. All professions have their bad apples that need to be weeded out.

I'm not ragging on all cops. However, bad cops have an advantage that most people don't: A gun and a badge, and a justice system that gives their word far more credence than anyone else's. Because of that, society should be absolutely uncompromising in weeding out the bad ones, early, often, and fast.

And yes, that applies to medicine as well.

**Ex-Calif** · 15-08-2010, 17:53

This thread gets a lot of latitude to wander around.

Gentle nudge to keep this on topic and loosely related to boating.

Let's be careful not to devolve into a government/police rant.

zeehag · 15-08-2010, 18:16

the only police i have a rant about is per-duck.

capn_billl · 18-08-2010, 09:20

I'm glad this finally worked out the wheels of justice move slowely. Being a powerboater and having been in a simular situation... I would place ALL blame on the powerboater. I was driving at night after a party in a clearly marked and lighted channel, at night when an unlit slow moving and small dinghy moved in front of me from outside the channel. Difference number one I did not hit the dinghy, difference number two I was traveling slow enough (8-10mph), that I was able to manuver or stop before collision, difference number three I had a lookout with a spotlight. Difference four me the Captain had not been drinking, (I don't drink until the boat is safely moored). Difference 5 upon sighting the unlit vessel I immediately cut throttle and sounded the horn alerting the man at the tiller, who had his head down, of my presence so both vessels could act to avoid a collision,... which we did, ... and no collision occurred. The moral, safety is no accident. Operating a boat in an unsafe manner will eventually kill someone. I don't operate my boat at night on the assumption that all vessels will be brightly lit, or even have required lighting, or that the channel will be clear. The risk of being charged with VM should be a constant reminder to operate motor vehicles safely. I have read some arguing the power boat had no obligation to slow down. I disagree 40MPH is 60 feet per second. It can take 10 seconds to react to an obstruction, that is 600 feet, and remember unlike your car the boat has NO brakes. Visibility at night is at best 50-100ft, that means you will only be able to react 500ft after you just hit it.

Hiracer · 18-08-2010, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by capn_billl

40MPH is 60 feet per second. It can take 10 seconds to react to an obstruction, that is 600 feet, and remember unlike your car the boat has NO brakes. Visibility at night is at best 50-100ft, that means you will only be able to react 500ft after you just hit it.

You have hit the nail on the head. Thank you.

Despite admissions by Perdock regarding his high rate of speed, the prosecuting attorney claimed he was unable to prove that Perdock was driving too fast for conditions, i.e., at night. Right. Unbelievable.

Southern Star · 18-08-2010, 11:06

I share in everyone's pleasure at the launch of this civil action, although I expect it will drag on for a very long time. Early on in this thread I and others expressed our concerns about the apparent conflicts of interest at the investigative and prosecutorial levels; regardless of the outcome of the civil case, it must now be clear to all involved that not only would justice (and the appearance of justice) have been better served by an investigation/prosecution by outside agencies, their own reputations/interests would also have been better served.

Ultimately through arrogance, not ignorance (they must have known better) they turned a potential win/win situation into a lose/lose. Here's to hoping that they will be made to pay in not only dollars (most of which will likely be borne by the taxpayer), but by (where available) dismissal, disbarment and disgrace.

Brad

redmirage · 24-08-2010, 18:38

So According to the DA and the local laws if I am the seaman at the helm of the USS Ronald Reagan I would be the operator of the vessel?

**sarafina** · 24-08-2010, 20:16

astounding, isn't it? but yes, that was their premise. A boat is a vehicle. a vehicle has an operator and an owner who may or may not be the same person. The operator, at the wheel, helm or tiller is legally (per lake county district) responsible for the vehicle.

When I lay it out here it *sort of* sounds reasonable... but yeah then apply it to a naval vessel, or a commercial container ship. That makes the operator legally libel, not the owner of the boat!... makes my brain hurt.

sailorboy1 · 25-08-2010, 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarafina

astounding, isn't it? but yes, that was their premise. A boat is a vehicle. a vehicle has an operator and an owner who may or may not be the same person. The operator, at the wheel, helm or tiller is legally (per lake county district) responsible for the vehicle.

When I lay it out here it *sort of* sounds reasonable... but yeah then apply it to a naval vessel, or a commercial container ship. That makes the operator legally libel, not the owner of the boat!... makes my brain hurt.

Wonder if we take that out a ways if a time is coming where you have to have listed all people who may be on the helm of your boat on your insurance application? Or that youneed to be sure whoever is on the helm is insuranced for coverage.

Healer52 · 25-08-2010, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmirage

So According to the DA and the local laws if I am the seaman at the helm of the USS Ronald Reagan I would be the operator of the vessel?

The local DA doesn't have a lot to do with the operations of Naval vessels. There is federal preemption for their actions.

Now, if you were one of the (many) quartermasters of the USS Reagan and screwed up, the Navy would deal with you quite effectively, up to and including potential life in prison (the death penalty would be a stretch). They'd also courts-martial the deck officers on duty, and the Captain. But the Navy has more controls than civilian ships.

For example, a ULCC supertanker is larger (more displacement, and the same length more or less) than a Nimitz class carrier, and has perhaps 4 deck officers, one or two engineering officers and perhaps 25 other seaman on board. A carrier? 3,000 or so not counting the Air Wing.

Hiracer · 25-08-2010, 09:52

One of the things I hoped is flushed out in Dinius' civil action is why Perdock was fired.

sww914 · 25-08-2010, 22:22

This is all pretty typical IMO, especially in rural areas like where I live. The people in power buddy up and stick together WAAAYYYY past the point where right & wrong ceased to exist. This is a good example of why I'm going cruising. The crooks have the keys everywhere but at least I'll get to see new crooks regularly.

osirissail · 26-08-2010, 06:18

Speaking of laws, law enforcement, and cruising - one of the big shocks to a "newbie" fresh off the coast heading out to sea is that - although there are plenty of laws and conventions in place in the maritime world - few is any are followed and/or even enforced.
- - The USCG and other Coast Guards, especially in the Caribbean are all tasked with drug interdiction and have little or no interest in helping or enforcing national or international laws/regs/etc. relative to safe passagemaking. They say that is the business of the local police/sheriffs/marine patrols.
- - COLREGs, etc. are routinely ignored mainly because few if any locals even know of their existence. Basically they are back in Chris Columbus's day of open seas.
- - Bottom line, you had better be aware of everything around you and how to keep your boat and butt out of harm's way. Hearing new cruisers calling on the radio for some CG or police assistance is usually met with polite laughter as frankly most islands do not have any CG or marine police. If they do it is normally more of a ceremonial job for guys who would otherwise be sitting on a barrel outside a bar.
- - The good news is that if they don't exist they cannot abuse you. The bad news is that if they do exist they will probably hit you up for some serious cash to leave you alone.