Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 4.75 average. Display Modes
Old 15-08-2010, 14:54   #691
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
I wouldn't rag on all cops. All professions have their bad apples that need to be weeded out.
__________________

__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2010, 15:52   #692
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
I wouldn't rag on all cops. All professions have their bad apples that need to be weeded out.

I'm not ragging on all cops. However, bad cops have an advantage that most people don't: A gun and a badge, and a justice system that gives their word far more credence than anyone else's. Because of that, society should be absolutely uncompromising in weeding out the bad ones, early, often, and fast.

And yes, that applies to medicine as well.
__________________

__________________
Healer52 / Lisa, Rick and Angel the Salty Dog
Currently on the hard, looking for a boat
Healer52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2010, 18:53   #693
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
This thread gets a lot of latitude to wander around.

Gentle nudge to keep this on topic and loosely related to boating.

Let's be careful not to devolve into a government/police rant.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2010, 19:16   #694
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,767
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
the only police i have a rant about is per-duck.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2010, 10:20   #695
Registered User
 
capn_billl's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston,Tx
Boat: Maxum 37'
Posts: 1,587
I'm glad this finally worked out the wheels of justice move slowely. Being a powerboater and having been in a simular situation... I would place ALL blame on the powerboater. I was driving at night after a party in a clearly marked and lighted channel, at night when an unlit slow moving and small dinghy moved in front of me from outside the channel. Difference number one I did not hit the dinghy, difference number two I was traveling slow enough (8-10mph), that I was able to manuver or stop before collision, difference number three I had a lookout with a spotlight. Difference four me the Captain had not been drinking, (I don't drink until the boat is safely moored). Difference 5 upon sighting the unlit vessel I immediately cut throttle and sounded the horn alerting the man at the tiller, who had his head down, of my presence so both vessels could act to avoid a collision,... which we did, ... and no collision occurred. The moral, safety is no accident. Operating a boat in an unsafe manner will eventually kill someone. I don't operate my boat at night on the assumption that all vessels will be brightly lit, or even have required lighting, or that the channel will be clear. The risk of being charged with VM should be a constant reminder to operate motor vehicles safely. I have read some arguing the power boat had no obligation to slow down. I disagree 40MPH is 60 feet per second. It can take 10 seconds to react to an obstruction, that is 600 feet, and remember unlike your car the boat has NO brakes. Visibility at night is at best 50-100ft, that means you will only be able to react 500ft after you just hit it.
__________________
capn_billl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2010, 10:42   #696
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
40MPH is 60 feet per second. It can take 10 seconds to react to an obstruction, that is 600 feet, and remember unlike your car the boat has NO brakes. Visibility at night is at best 50-100ft, that means you will only be able to react 500ft after you just hit it.
You have hit the nail on the head. Thank you.

Despite admissions by Perdock regarding his high rate of speed, the prosecuting attorney claimed he was unable to prove that Perdock was driving too fast for conditions, i.e., at night. Right. Unbelievable.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2010, 12:06   #697
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
I share in everyone's pleasure at the launch of this civil action, although I expect it will drag on for a very long time. Early on in this thread I and others expressed our concerns about the apparent conflicts of interest at the investigative and prosecutorial levels; regardless of the outcome of the civil case, it must now be clear to all involved that not only would justice (and the appearance of justice) have been better served by an investigation/prosecution by outside agencies, their own reputations/interests would also have been better served.

Ultimately through arrogance, not ignorance (they must have known better) they turned a potential win/win situation into a lose/lose. Here's to hoping that they will be made to pay in not only dollars (most of which will likely be borne by the taxpayer), but by (where available) dismissal, disbarment and disgrace.

Brad
__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2010, 19:38   #698
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Coosaw Island SC
Boat: Island trader, Ketch, 40.8ft, Vagabond
Posts: 31
Images: 1
So According to the DA and the local laws if I am the seaman at the helm of the USS Ronald Reagan I would be the operator of the vessel?
__________________
redmirage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2010, 21:16   #699
Moderator... short for Cat Wrangler
 
sarafina's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Cal 28 Flush Deck
Posts: 5,559
Images: 56
astounding, isn't it? but yes, that was their premise. A boat is a vehicle. a vehicle has an operator and an owner who may or may not be the same person. The operator, at the wheel, helm or tiller is legally (per lake county district) responsible for the vehicle.

When I lay it out here it *sort of* sounds reasonable... but yeah then apply it to a naval vessel, or a commercial container ship. That makes the operator legally libel, not the owner of the boat!... makes my brain hurt.
__________________
Sara

ain't what ya do, it's the way that ya do it...
sarafina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2010, 09:43   #700
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
astounding, isn't it? but yes, that was their premise. A boat is a vehicle. a vehicle has an operator and an owner who may or may not be the same person. The operator, at the wheel, helm or tiller is legally (per lake county district) responsible for the vehicle.

When I lay it out here it *sort of* sounds reasonable... but yeah then apply it to a naval vessel, or a commercial container ship. That makes the operator legally libel, not the owner of the boat!... makes my brain hurt.

Wonder if we take that out a ways if a time is coming where you have to have listed all people who may be on the helm of your boat on your insurance application? Or that youneed to be sure whoever is on the helm is insuranced for coverage.
__________________
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2010, 09:51   #701
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by redmirage View Post
So According to the DA and the local laws if I am the seaman at the helm of the USS Ronald Reagan I would be the operator of the vessel?
The local DA doesn't have a lot to do with the operations of Naval vessels. There is federal preemption for their actions.

Now, if you were one of the (many) quartermasters of the USS Reagan and screwed up, the Navy would deal with you quite effectively, up to and including potential life in prison (the death penalty would be a stretch). They'd also courts-martial the deck officers on duty, and the Captain. But the Navy has more controls than civilian ships.

For example, a ULCC supertanker is larger (more displacement, and the same length more or less) than a Nimitz class carrier, and has perhaps 4 deck officers, one or two engineering officers and perhaps 25 other seaman on board. A carrier? 3,000 or so not counting the Air Wing.
__________________
Healer52 / Lisa, Rick and Angel the Salty Dog
Currently on the hard, looking for a boat
Healer52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2010, 10:52   #702
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
One of the things I hoped is flushed out in Dinius' civil action is why Perdock was fired.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-08-2010, 23:22   #703
Registered User
 
sww914's Avatar

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Punta De Mita
Boat: Vagabond 39 Hull # 1
Posts: 1,842
This is all pretty typical IMO, especially in rural areas like where I live. The people in power buddy up and stick together WAAAYYYY past the point where right & wrong ceased to exist. This is a good example of why I'm going cruising. The crooks have the keys everywhere but at least I'll get to see new crooks regularly.
__________________
sww914 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2010, 07:18   #704
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Speaking of laws, law enforcement, and cruising - one of the big shocks to a "newbie" fresh off the coast heading out to sea is that - although there are plenty of laws and conventions in place in the maritime world - few is any are followed and/or even enforced.
- - The USCG and other Coast Guards, especially in the Caribbean are all tasked with drug interdiction and have little or no interest in helping or enforcing national or international laws/regs/etc. relative to safe passagemaking. They say that is the business of the local police/sheriffs/marine patrols.
- - COLREGs, etc. are routinely ignored mainly because few if any locals even know of their existence. Basically they are back in Chris Columbus's day of open seas.
- - Bottom line, you had better be aware of everything around you and how to keep your boat and butt out of harm's way. Hearing new cruisers calling on the radio for some CG or police assistance is usually met with polite laughter as frankly most islands do not have any CG or marine police. If they do it is normally more of a ceremonial job for guys who would otherwise be sitting on a barrel outside a bar.
- - The good news is that if they don't exist they cannot abuse you. The bad news is that if they do exist they will probably hit you up for some serious cash to leave you alone.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-08-2010, 08:14   #705
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Healer52 View Post
For example, a ULCC supertanker is larger (more displacement, and the same length more or less) than a Nimitz class carrier,
I'll take the Nimitz in a knife fight, gun battle or even a game of chicken on the high seas...

just sayin...
__________________

__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
california

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Harbors of Southern California Celestialsailor Liveaboard's Forum 17 26-07-2008 00:56
Wanted - Sailing from North California To Vancouver B.C areso70 Crew Archives 6 25-07-2008 23:18
Caribbean to California Passage planning help Limpet General Sailing Forum 23 08-01-2008 17:28
Anyone ever moved a large sailboat from California to Florida? Jolly Roger Cruising News & Events 4 13-05-2007 19:10
Liveaboards in California boatcruisers Meets & Greets 2 09-04-2007 14:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.