Advantages to have a small boat

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Small boats are awesome when trying to sail to windward in winds over 20 knots.

Getting desperate huh..???

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Getting desperate huh..???

A big boat would have tripped over its keel long before that unfortunate small one did. And it would have injured/killed people when it took out the pier.

[boatman61]

True.. a 45ft German sailboat doing sail training got rolled on the bar at Figueira da Foz a couple of years back trying to come in against the harbour closed marks and VHF advice.. weather was not that bad just a big swell.. all six crew in the water, skipper was killed and one Policia Maritimo crew died during the rescue.. in certain cases boat size don't much matter.

[i3.friend]

I am happy with my 28ft Ericson and my first sail boat. I also live aboard which is also a first but I am lucky since these sloops where designed with a lot of space. It has taught me a lot and has somewhat less to maintain. I will be smiling offshore this summer I am in Oregon and I have decided I am relocating to so cal end of the year or next season and will be sailing down the coast.

[AKA-None]

I'll stick with my c&c 27 as it's appropriate for where I sail

[Sandibar]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Small boats are awesome when trying to sail to windward in winds over 20 knots.

Not sure if you're serious, but are you really making generalizations on boat size relation to windward performance based on a video of a knockdown of a racer with no main up and a jammed jib in breaking waves? That's not very good inductive reasoning.

Personally: I think the problem here was that they had a fixed plotter instead of an iPad for navigation.

And on a more serious note, excellent, thought provoking video, thanks for the poster. Makes you appreciate the need for pre-planning and practice.

Oh, and as to the original topic of this thread. I think our 35 hits the sweet spot in size for summer cruising in the Baltic (it's pretty roomy for its size and age). For extended cruising further away from home base I'd like to have something a bit larger.

[Sandibar]

Oh, I got confused of threads... I meant to thank the original poster of this video in the other thread discussing the same .

As a further comment on my boat size preference: It's of course totally subjective and dependent on use, which is why I don't understand all the strong reactions to contrary views. We
- almost never anchor but use marinas
- have not left the Baltic so far
- do not make passages longer than 250 miles
- only sail the shortish summer season, longest time spent on boat has been 7 weeks in a row for me
- usually have two adults + 1 child onboard

Our boat is safe for its intended use, it's easy to find space in marinas and we do not need to have stowage for a three-week ocean crossing. Sure I'd like to have more livable space inside, but for me at this time its not worth the extra cost and hassle.

[BluePeter]

Decide where you want to go and then get a boat that's tailored to the location. I wanted to explore the Everglades, I got a Dovekie. Explored my butt off. Sold her at a profit. Wanted to explore the sub-arctic, so bought a Nimble 25 pilothouse. Lost money on that POS. Wanted to sail fast coastally, bought a Beneteu First 21. Made a few thousand on resale. Wanted to sail more comfortably on the Maine coast, bought a cheap Endeavor 32. Sold it at a small profit. Just back from 3 months in Bahamas and Cuba aboard a friend's 36 footer. Nice boat but too big and expensive for me! Now I own a Flicka. Now I can go anywhere..pretty much. It's not the conveyance that matters to me, but the experience. Would I love a Pilot 35 on a screaming reach through Eggemoggin? Sure. Is it going to happen? Never. It's all a compromise in the end.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Small boats are awesome when trying to sail to windward in winds over 20 knots.

Still beating that drum, Ken? Here's a thought for you:

Years ago I owned a Catalina 22 trailer sailor. I raced it for four seasons on San Francisco bay, where the SYRA had a one design fleet start for them. We had around 20 boats most years, all of them a mere 22 flimsy feet long. We raced in what is locally called the 'Slot", where the normal summer wind strength is 25+ knots. Those races ALL had windward legs, and typically,all of the starters finished the races. Seems like even those not so wonderful small performers could indeed sail to windward in >20 knots, or else they were gonna be DNFs.

So, spare us the opinion that smaller boats can't sail to windward under those conditions. Bigger boats do it better, and some other small boats do it better as well, but small yachts can sail to windward in 20+ knots, and do so frequently.

Jim

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Still beating that drum, Ken? Here's a thought for you:

Years ago I owned a Catalina 22 trailer sailor. I raced it for four seasons on San Francisco bay, where the SYRA had a one design fleet start for them. We had around 20 boats most years, all of them a mere 22 flimsy feet long. We raced in what is locally called the 'Slot", where the normal summer wind strength is 25+ knots. Those races ALL had windward legs, and typically,all of the starters finished the races. Seems like even those not so wonderful small performers could indeed sail to windward in >20 knots, or else they were gonna be DNFs.

So, spare us the opinion that smaller boats can't sail to windward under those conditions. Bigger boats do it better, and some other small boats do it better as well, but small yachts can sail to windward in 20+ knots, and do so frequently.

Jim

So... you had a Catalina 22 and "raced it for four seasons on San Fransisco Bay.". I assume that's INSIDE the bay without the waves and fetch most people experience whilst sailing OUTSIDE the bay.

We also owned an O'Day 20 for ten years in Southern California during the 1980s which we sail exclusively up and down the coast and out to the channel islands which are OUTSIDE the bay.

Yes, I do know what I'm taking about when refering to smaller boats having a difficult time sailing to windward OUTSIDE the bay in over 20 knots of wind with the waves associated with the wind OUTSIDE the bay.

And yes... I've also sailed our previous Hunter 450 across "the slot" on San Fransisco Bay, so I do know where it is.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

So... you had a Catalina 22 and "raced it for four seasons on San Fransisco Bay.". I assume that's INSIDE the bay without the waves and fetch most people experience whilst sailing OUTSIDE the bay.

We also owned an O'Day 20 for ten years in Southern California during the 1980s which we sail exclusively up and down the coast and out to the channel islands which are OUTSIDE the bay.

Yes, I do know what I'm taking about when refering to smaller boats having a difficult time sailing to windward OUTSIDE the bay in over 20 knots of wind with the waves associated with the wind OUTSIDE the bay.

And yes... I've also sailed our previous Hunter 450 across "the slot" on San Fransisco Bay, so I do know where it is.

Ken, IIRC you said that small boats could NOT go to windward in those conditions. I say they can. And fwiw, getting to windward inside SF bay in 25 knots was considerably harder than the several times I sailed from Sta Barbara to the Channel Islands in that C-22. The short 2 m wind chop imposed on the swell that penetrates under the GG bridge is not kind to short WL boats, while the longer period seas in the Sta Barbara channel are less of a problem.

Now you are saying that they have a difficult time going to windward... well, that's true. If you had just said that to start with, we would not be having this discussion now.

But what this has to do with the Redondo beach crash is hard to see... that seems to have been a partially disabled boat with a distracted or just incompetent crew.

Jim

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Frankly, I doubt someone telling us they felt safer in a 22' boat (than in a 62' one) is serious.

I think the person simply did not sail enough in each style or at least not enough in one of them!

Our own boat is 26' and I have sailed long distances in boats up to 72'.

Small boats are inherently unsafe, less stable, less comfortable, slower and harder on the crew. They get bashed more by the wind turned upside down sooner by the waves and are out there only because some lunatics and dreamers have pockets not deep enough.

And I am glad they are as otherwise I would not be sailing either. Except I have a mirror in my boat and I look myself deep into the eyes before every offshore passage.

Cheers,
b.

One of the best posts I've read on here in a while! Beautiful!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Like I wrote earlier on post #164.

My opinion comes from doing the same. Point of information: Small boats can't even make headway into winds and waves exceding 20 knots plus, hence.... the small craft warnings issued by the Coast Guard.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ken, IIRC you said that small boats could NOT go to windward in those conditions. I say they can. And fwiw, getting to windward inside SF bay in 25 knots was considerably harder than the several times I sailed from Sta Barbara to the Channel Islands in that C-22. The short 2 m wind chop imposed on the swell that penetrates under the GG bridge is not kind to short WL boats, while the longer period seas in the Sta Barbara channel are less of a problem.

Now you are saying that they have a difficult time going to windward... well, that's true. If you had just said that to start with, we would not be having this discussion now.

But what this has to do with the Redondo beach crash is hard to see... that seems to have been a partially disabled boat with a distracted or just incompetent crew.

Jim

I did, you're just late to the discussion. That was the point I was trying to make, thanks for the confirmation.

[boatman61]

This thread cracks me up..
Not one poster has proof that small boats are less safe apart from theoretical assumptions based on wind tunnel/wave tests in artificial environments yet throughout history there's examples of small boats doing impossible things.
All I've read here is a bunch of big boat owners scrabbling to justify why they have a big boat..
Funny thing is.. most every one of the abandonments posted on CF are big boats while under 35's seem to keep popping up in the Caribe etc quite regularly.. seem to remember a few deliveries I've done of small boats late season that 'would not make it' according to CF wisdom.
Personally I don't give a toss what you have.. big or small.. but the sneering by some and ass kissing by others does get a bit stomach churning..

[hamburking]

This discussion of small boats got me thinking of choosing something a bit smaller for my next boat. I'm on Lake Ontario, but thinking of heading south once my kids are both launched soon (a couple years).

I came across this (local) boat for sale...and it looks really good. I'd appreciate your comments.

I'm thinking of heading down the hudson river, then down the east coast to the bahamas and the caribbean. Or maybe jump from New York to Bermuda? I don't really have anyplace to get to, just like to sail, be on a boat, and not be in a hurry. Sadly, I'll be going alone, and on a tight budget, but hoping to make friends along the way and not opposed to guest crew and visitors.

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