Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-05-2016, 15:14   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Lake Belton, TX, USA, Earth: 3rd rock from the Sun
Boat: Vagabond 14
Posts: 422
Adjusting weather helm

OK... All the other boats I've sailed tend to turn nose into the wind and basically stop if you let go of the tiller.

This Vagabond 14 tends to turn its side to the wind...
VAGABOND 14 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Any simple way to change that? Or is it just a characteristic of the boat I have to get used to?
__________________

__________________
TurninTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 03:54   #2
Registered User
 
Snowpetrel's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hobart
Boat: Alloy Peterson 40
Posts: 3,071
Re: Adjusting weather helm

Assuming you have the sails set correctly, More mast rake by lengthening the forestay can help. Also check the centreboard position. If its not going right down that might be your problem.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
My Ramblings
Snowpetrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 03:56   #3
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
Re: Adjusting weather helm

Think like a windsurfer.
__________________
LakeSuperior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 04:40   #4
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,469
Re: Adjusting weather helm

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurninTurtle View Post
OK... All the other boats I've sailed tend to turn nose into the wind and basically stop if you let go of the tiller.

This Vagabond 14 tends to turn its side to the wind...
VAGABOND 14 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Any simple way to change that? Or is it just a characteristic of the boat I have to get used to?
More mast rake should help as has been said.

Is the main sheeted in tight? Or is just the jib sheeted in tight and the main sort of loose

Do you have a very large jib?

details, details.........
__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 04:46   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Adjusting weather helm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Assuming you have the sails set correctly, More mast rake by lengthening the forestay can help. Also check the centreboard position. If its not going right down that might be your problem.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
+1 of the above, and also if you're heeled to weather it will round down. Another factor is fore and aft trim, if you're sitting in the back with the bow in the air that will cause lee helm, but this one is a much smaller magnitude force on the boat than the other causes listed.
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 08:47   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Lake Belton, TX, USA, Earth: 3rd rock from the Sun
Boat: Vagabond 14
Posts: 422
Re: Adjusting weather helm

OEM (1981) sails. Kind of "soft" but no signs of holes.

It has been doing this since I got it (recently)

Pretty much can't drive the dagger board down any way but straight.

It does have a trolling motor battery right at transom and the design + flaky tiller extension encourages a single-hander to sit aft of the centerboard.

Its most noticeable tacking, but tries to turn side to wind even in a mostly downwind run. It just wants to turn its side to the wind.

I'm not heavy enough to heel it over into the wind. It gets worse as the wind leans the boat more.

The pic in the linked sailboat data page shows the jib hauled as far over as it goes toward center without playing games using the opposite side's line, which can pull it a little more to the mast before slacking the foot of the sail

*

So try to get that battery forward (may be able to stuff it in the under foredeck storage)

Try to sit more forward. (fix the tiller extension)

Let the fore stay out some and pull the raked back side stays in a bit.

And check result.

Thanks.
__________________
TurninTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 09:05   #7
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Adjusting weather helm

So when sailing downwind it turns towards the wind to a beam reach (sideways to the wind), and when sailing upwind it turns away from the wind?
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 09:22   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Lake Belton, TX, USA, Earth: 3rd rock from the Sun
Boat: Vagabond 14
Posts: 422
Re: Adjusting weather helm

Yep... Its like the hull wants to be 90 deg to the wind.

I can understand the downwind with the sail out to the side and it turning to the opposite side. But it stops at 90 deg to the wind.

Haven't managed to get the jib out for wing on wing.
__________________
TurninTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 09:29   #9
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Adjusting weather helm

Whoa! So you can get a square headed main now!

Drop the jib, see what happens.

Why worry.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 10:00   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Lake Belton, TX, USA, Earth: 3rd rock from the Sun
Boat: Vagabond 14
Posts: 422
Re: Adjusting weather helm

Why worry is... If it drifts off heading on a close haul tack I want it to be into the wind, not broadside.

Oh, I slowed down...
vs
Boat flipped
__________________
TurninTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 10:21   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 1,854
Re: Adjusting weather helm

That Vagabond 14 (nice fun boat) has very centered lateral resistance from its daggerboard. The design depends on form stability from the relatively wide flat bottom. It is meant to be sailed flat. That depends on sail trim to some degree but mainly on crew weight and hiking out as needed. Also, it was not intended to carry a battery. The weight of battery and helmsman aft near the transom will lift the bow and sink the stern.

So I suggest first get the battery out of the stern (and off the boat). Next move yourself forward in the cockpit when sailing upwind and aft when sailing downwind. And learn to live hiking out when going upwind in a breeze. It's good for boat trim and good for your abdominal muscles. (Keeps you trim too.)


S/V B'Shert
__________________
Tayana42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 10:43   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Lake Belton, TX, USA, Earth: 3rd rock from the Sun
Boat: Vagabond 14
Posts: 422
Re: Adjusting weather helm

I received the boat with the battery and trolling motor installed.

If just moving the battery (and me) forward cures the issue, that would seem to be the way to go.

So far I've been sitting as far forward as the condition of the tiller allows, because that is where I can reach all of the lines. Sitting further aft I can't get at the jib sheets.
__________________
TurninTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 11:13   #13
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,469
Re: Adjusting weather helm

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurninTurtle View Post
Yep... Its like the hull wants to be 90 deg to the wind.

I can understand the downwind with the sail out to the side and it turning to the opposite side. But it stops at 90 deg to the wind.
When it stops turning at 90 degrees, is the main sheeted all the way in or still in the same position as it was when you were sailing downwind?

If you sheet the main in tight the boat should head to windward even if the boat doesn't have forward momentum. If it doesn't, ease the jib


.....and don't worry about where the battery is or any of that stuff. The sails control the boat unless the rig is about to fall down or the sails are almost worthless

All your examples are of downwind sailing. Folks usually complain about lee helm on the upwind leg if there is a problem
__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 11:44   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Lake Belton, TX, USA, Earth: 3rd rock from the Sun
Boat: Vagabond 14
Posts: 422
Re: Adjusting weather helm

From the downwind run, I can let the sails luff as they unload due to the boat turning... or adjust the sheets. It wants to be broadside to the wind.

Haven't tried just adjusting the main and letting the jib flap from that condition.

From the discussion so far;
1: Pretty well thinking the weight is too far aft right now.
2: Maybe the mast stays are not adjusted correctly.

The weight distribution seems like an easy thing to adjust.

The mast stays have several "notches" available to lean it back a bit. I have been connecting them at the same points as when I had the previous owner demonstrate rigging the boat.
I might try one hole tighter on the side stays which might be 3 looser on the fore stay.
(After trying just changing the weight distribution... one change at a time so I know which change did what.)
__________________
TurninTurtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 12:07   #15
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,469
Re: Adjusting weather helm

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurninTurtle View Post
From the downwind run, I can let the sails luff as they unload due to the boat turning... or adjust the sheets. It wants to be broadside to the wind.

Haven't tried just adjusting the main and letting the jib flap from that condition.

From the discussion so far;
1: Pretty well thinking the weight is too far aft right now.
2: Maybe the mast stays are not adjusted correctly.

The weight distribution seems like an easy thing to adjust.

The mast stays have several "notches" available to lean it back a bit. I have been connecting them at the same points as when I had the previous owner demonstrate rigging the boat.
I might try one hole tighter on the side stays which might be 3 looser on the fore stay.
(After trying just changing the weight distribution... one change at a time so I know which change did what.)
If the boat wants to sit "broadside to the wind" as you say there is something radically wrong that weight distribution and/or some one notch adjustment ain't gonna help.

Sheet the main in tight for starters......(then ease the jib and watch the boat head up to windward)

You should be able to figure out the rest from there

You can put all the weight aft and the boat will still get closer to the wind than 90 degrees! ....if you sheet the main all the way in.........and if that doesn't do it, ease the jib
__________________

__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
helm, weather

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Fun: Helm Steer or Helm Tiller ? GaryMayo General Sailing Forum 57 15-05-2016 10:15
Adjusting Volvo Tachometer Reading Sunspot Baby Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 4 01-08-2009 10:31
Adjusting 2qm15 idle speed Derrick Serrer Engines and Propulsion Systems 4 09-08-2008 10:35
Shime for adjusting the height opf the engine on the beds. ribbony Engines and Propulsion Systems 14 21-02-2008 03:10
Adjusting a feathering prop Weyalan Engines and Propulsion Systems 3 21-12-2005 13:44



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.