Accidents caused by dysfunctional relationships

[sailorboy1]

I bet those of us ex-Navy people have a different view of this stand watch, take actions, take responsibility, follow orders thing than those that didn't serve aboard a war vessel. And I bet most people who never served in the military have an incorrect view of how the whole thing really works within the military.

What the OP is really talking about is a communication problem. And most "issues" that originally started as a "problem" go bad due to a communication problem.

But it has always seemed a weird world where a owner would hire someone to move their boat based on:
- a short conversion
- a paper resume
- where the crew may know nothing
- where the captain and crew may never have worked together

I think the only reason the above works out more often than not is because no real problems occurred during the trip.

[msponer]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

....

I have seen skippers like this, not very many, but some, who get defensive about being "criticized" by the crew. Sometimes just because they don't want to seem like they don't know it all, and sometimes because they think they know it all.

....

What the OP describes in his intro is way over the top though. I was confused about the introduction of another skipper being the idiot and then the questions led me to believe it might be about the OP. Just call me confused and dazed. It was just the way it was worded I think.

Hi,
Sorry for being unclear. I wrote more for my first post, but cut paragraphs to be more concise for a forum. I evidently cut too much.

My goal is to have a conversation about leadership styles. Because I see situations on other boats that are dysfunctional, and, at least on two boats, I feel set them up for serious accidents (losing the boat and almost losing the boat) as much as any technical mistakes.

For ourselves, we emphasize teamwork and strive for everyone to be able to do everything. It's not a democracy, and some of us know a lot more than others, but everyone is treated like an intelligent adult who is capable of learning any role or task. I feel it's safer to be surrounded by capable people, that I trust, who think and talk and take responsibility for safety. And there is a joy in teamwork, because after a few months everyone is good enough that cruising feels more and more effortless.

One of my more satisfying moments, in this vein, was a few weeks ago. The couple that is our long term crew swapped roles with my wife and I, and played skipper to move the boat between anchorages. It was funny to see their marriage communication dynamic between helm and foredeck, with lots of "sweetie's" added in, and when the hook was down and set, they said "You know, that's pretty stressful."

That said, this hasn't worked well with some people I've had on board. Some people can't emotionally separate themselves from their ideas, and become invested in them. They view discussions as arguments, with winning and losing, rather than a kind of dance to play through ideas. This is highly annoying for me to manage, since I have to "bring them down" so that they don't lose face in their own mind, because what is invariably next is mopey passive aggression. Which I can't stand. I'm not compatible with people like that when on a sailboat. I find that around them I do turn into a different manager, who talks less and cuts off other ideas more quickly, before it turns into an "argument." I've had to gently (and not so gently) push people like that off. People have to be adults, emotionally, for teamwork to be fun.

[Paul L]

Mspooner
One issue I have with the eveyone involved in decision making has to do with how informed crew really are. For example, when on a long passage I spend a lot of time on getting weather info. Downloading GRIBs once or twice a day. Listening to SSB nets that drone on with reports from boats all over. This quickly typically gets boring for crew. So I continue gathering info for many days. Then when real decisions need to be made the crew is often only dealing with the most recent info that has been heard. Maybe that some boat has decided to turn West on advice of their weather router or another one is motoring hard to get in position for a front. I know a lot more about these other boats and their motivation and their weather reports reliability than the crew who is now really concerned about up coming weather. Basically it's my call what the strategy for dealing with the weather is going to be. Democracy isn't that helpful in situations like this. I always explain my rationale and are open to discussing holes in the rationale, but in the end I have much more info than the crew and need to make the best call I can. Sometimes the crew says great call after the fact, other times not so much.

[mottseng]

personally i will not go to sea with someone who will not or cannot follow my instructions.[/QUOTE]

What if your instructions are wrong?

[lorrie]

I read a book called The E Myth.
It really changed my life.
It is overwhelming to think you must do everything yourself.

I learned to train and assist others to carry out duties. The goal was to make them self sufficient.


I was working as a Practice Management Advisor
for medical practices. With the help of existing staff I built systems and procedures. Soon after I got myself into a home renovation project with a Narcissist. Since I am not exactly a follower, I thought I could ignore this strong personality problem.
The more you ignore it the more angry they become.
Yes, this is a real problem, Narcissist on land, could be a disaster at sea. Captains should take team building classes. When everyone goes in different directions it becomes madness. If a captain does not want to be a leader, don't take on crew.
I found team building to be fun, once I had the process figured out.
On weekends I wanted to enjoyed the position of crew on a race boat, perfect balance.


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[daletournier]

Originally Posted by lorrie

I read a book called The E Myth.
It really changed my life.
It is overwhelming to think you must do everything yourself.

I learned to train and assist others to carry out duties. The goal was to make them self sufficient.


I was working as a Practice Management Advisor
for medical practices. With the help of existing staff I built systems and procedures. Soon after I got myself into a home renovation project with a Narcissist. Since I am not exactly a follower, I thought I could ignore this strong personality problem.
The more you ignore it the more angry they become.
Yes, this is a real problem, Narcissist on land, could be a disaster at sea. Captains should take team building classes. When everyone goes in different directions it becomes madness. If a captain does not want to be a leader, don't take on crew.
I found team building to be fun, once I had the process figured out.
On weekends I wanted to enjoyed the position of crew on a race boat, perfect balance.


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I retired early and that book can take alot of the credit, as you said "it changed my life". I have given it as a gift regularly.

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[lorrie]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

I totally get it and I would never presume to know more than the captain of his ship. Playing devils advocate, what if the situation were reversed? What if you are a sail by the seat of your pants sort and your crew has no confidence in you and your gut feeling?

Where does the crew come in with a sense of self preservation?

Oh aye, mutiny laddie! What say you captain?

Exactly!
What if the crew is the one studying the chart and depth.
What if the crew brings something to the attention of the captain that was not noticed.
I hope the Captain would be open minded to listen. Of course the Captain is always in charge.
Racing we would always point things out. The captain would follow with, got it, thank you.
We had different grumpy captain that did not want to hear anything, dangerous yes!


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[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by lorrie

Exactly!

I hope the Captain would be open minded to listen. Of course the Captain is always in charge.

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That's a myth, I have found that whilst I was always responsible I was seldom in charge.