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Old 06-12-2015, 17:37   #16
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Re: Accident report

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Not to diminish in any way the fault of the power boat skipper, but the sailor screwed the pooch. He failed to perceive the moment when he needed to stop standing on and start avoiding - fundamental to collision avoidance.

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Old 06-12-2015, 18:49   #17
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Re: Accident report

On a couple of other threads here the mentality of power boaters is discussed and also on another thread the use of auto pilots and the implied lack of need to be at the helm of the boat is promoted and it seems especially those sailing cats that have the helm out in the open.When I say at the helm I mean exactly that but not necessarily hand steering.
As to the mentality I can only comment I personally have experienced more bad than good with power boat operators big ,small ,private and commercially operated.In this country the wakes of the bigger boats operated by people who have zero consideration of other water users really are becoming a problem.
The auto pilot and no one at the helm situation also appears from my observation to be a growing issue and especially on the bigger power boats three times in the last 6 months when sailing in very open water I have had to change course for boats approaching from head on and astern doing around 20 knots twice with no one visible and the third time the idiot skipper had the hide to wave as we scrambled out of his way with sails luffing and bracing for the 1 metre plus bow wave .
I'm not knocking power boats as I have had a few and have started thinking about buying another when cruising under sail becomes too physically challenging for us.
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Old 06-12-2015, 19:33   #18
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Re: Accident report

As in many things in life, it took 2 to collide. The sailboat skipper is certainly at fault.

Changing course for the other vessels stern in open water makes discussion of the colregs moot.


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Old 06-12-2015, 21:55   #19
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Re: Accident report

With out starting a pissing match , I am quite comfortable with my knowledge of the colregs. I did not even say that the sailing vessel did all the right things I was trying to talk about what rightly might be expected of the other boat
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Old 06-12-2015, 22:02   #20
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Re: Accident report

> I believe that apportioning any blame on the sail boat is wrong .
...
> I did not even say that the sailing vessel did all the right things.

These two statements seem slightly at odds with each other.
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Old 07-12-2015, 13:54   #21
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Re: Accident report

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
There is no record of the French examining the power boat captain's cell phone for evidence of texting at the time of the accident-they missed a good bet.
The report says that the French investigators had no access to the phone because it has been seized for the legal inquest.

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Old 07-12-2015, 14:05   #22
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Re: Accident report

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Not to diminish in any way the fault of the power boat skipper, but the sailor screwed the pooch. He failed to perceive the moment when he needed to stop standing on and start avoiding - fundamental to collision avoidance.

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True, but to be fair, it's much harder for a slow moving object to get out of the way of a fast one.
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Old 07-12-2015, 14:13   #23
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Re: Accident report

The sailboat's skipper's experienced crew person was the lady who died of injuries to her head, whose body was recovered later.

He, poor man, didn't have the one crew above with him who could reasonably be expected to know what to do to help him turn down. [Ease the main a lot, jump to ease the jib.] Probably was so used to having close encounters with boats that eventually avoided him that he couldn't believe the professional crew would not give him space. Realized the inevitable too late. Poor guy.

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Old 07-12-2015, 14:21   #24
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Re: Accident report

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From the perspective of the sailing skipper this is how I could see it playng in his head

6 min That's a big boat we are going to get bounced

5 min He is going to get close ,Why do they always do that

4 min I know he has a licence but he is still an A_ _ hole

3 min I wonder when he is going to turn

2 min surely you are going to turn

1 min hold on I am turning

30 sec S_ _t

IMO minutes 5&4 are the key and that is because of how often we are buzzed by our power driven brothers . I am not looking to turn this into that subject but it is a fact of life for sailors,which may lead to complacency.
If sailors changed course every time this scenario shows up we would not get we are going.
I sold a sail boat to life long power boater once and he could not understand why sailors hated being buzzed ,the next year he understood .
I believe that apportioning any blame on the sail boat is wrong .He had a right to believe that a vessel as large as the power boat, would be fully and competently crewed by professionals with all necessary equipment installed and working. None of which is the case
From the report:

'The skipper thought that the close quarter situation which was developing, and which
he had identified, was consistent with observed practices of motor boats who do not hesitate, just out of curiosity, to sail past close from sailboats. '
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Old 07-12-2015, 14:26   #25
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Re: Accident report

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
True, but to be fair, it's much harder for a slow moving object to get out of the way of a fast one.
I agree, and that's a key fact which many of us don't fully appreciate.

It means that collision avoidance has to be done much earlier than many of us realize, when dealing with faster moving vessels.

And in some cases it might not be possible at all -- if it's not open water, and the fast vessel changes course at a point where there is already nothing you can do.

I guess I should have qualified my earlier post with this; thanks for bringing it up.
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Old 07-12-2015, 14:38   #26
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Re: Accident report

The first responsibility for any captain under similar circumstances is avoid collision..
Sailboat captain failed to assets the situation and take the actions to protect people on his boat.
Powerboat captain failed to pay attention what happened out there; at 19 knots a constant active scanning should be the first thing on his list.. maybe he was overconfident about the boat and his skills.. that always kill people..
On my book both captains are failed and they're should share responsibilities.. sailboat have time, water and wind to change course and take a parallel course with powerboat in order to avoid collision.
Later we can discuss about COLREGS...
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Old 07-12-2015, 14:55   #27
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Re: Accident report

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Originally Posted by garrobito View Post
The first responsibility for any captain under similar circumstances is avoid collision..
Sailboat captain failed to assets the situation and take the actions to protect people on his boat.
Powerboat captain failed to pay attention what happened out there; at 19 knots a constant active scanning should be the first thing on his list.. maybe he was overconfident about the boat and his skills.. that always kill people..
On my book both captains are failed and they're should share responsibilities.. sailboat have time, water and wind to change course and take a parallel course with powerboat in order to avoid collision.
Later we can discuss about COLREGS...
You are already discussing Colregs. Everyone is.

The main responsibility lay with the power boat skipper. He failed to keep a look out, he failed to give way to the sail boat. The sail boat skipper simply misjudged and assumed too much and his minor error was catastropic.
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Old 07-12-2015, 15:14   #28
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Re: Accident report

I had a megayacht coming up behind me at 20 knots off of Miami last year. I was tracking him on ais with a CPA of 6-20 feet at 2 miles astern. He finally answered my hail at 1 mile. He had not seen me before i raised him on the radio. His Comment "I only see a white light, I don't see your running lights". You would think that a megayacht would have a professional at the helm, and a professional would know that you would only see a white light (or maybe 2 white lights) approaching a boat from the stern.
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Old 07-12-2015, 15:22   #29
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Re: Accident report

According to the recommendations of the investigation;

1) Install AIS transmitter to allow easy communication with the vessel - This for a commercially operated vessel which operates at high speeds and would have allowed the sailboat to easily see what the CPA would be and what course to steer to avoid the collision in the first place. Ironic when so many sailboats have this equipment as standard. Just goes to show the lack of concern for safety by this charter operation.

2) Operation with a crew of 2 when the recommended complement was 3 and then to release 1 crewmember from watchtending to serve bar. Again goes to the little regard placed on safety by this organization and Captain.

Very difficult to ascertain potential collision with powerboats operating at high speeds which generally would result in slight alterations of course whenever suspicions arise that courses would closely intersect even just to avoid bow waves etc. Very sad situation and unless charges are brought against the powerboat captain and operator not much will change but a good lesson to all sailors that we cannot assume that a good watch is being maintained on such craft.
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Old 07-12-2015, 15:25   #30
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Re: Accident report

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I had a megayacht coming up behind me at 20 knots off of Miami last year. I was tracking him on ais with a CPA of 6-20 feet at 2 miles astern. He finally answered my hail at 1 mile. He had not seen me before i raised him on the radio. His Comment "I only see a white light, I don't see your running lights". You would think that a megayacht would have a professional at the helm, and a professional would know that you would only see a white light (or maybe 2 white lights) approaching a boat from the stern.

All that's required to operate a 'megayacht' in Australia is a speed boat license which is the same license required for a 3m dink with an 8hp motor. Though, you wouldn't be able to enter most controlled ports on a megayacht.
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