Abandoning Ship, Maybe Scuttle it Too?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Teknav

Hiya Captain 58! When flying, aircraft transponders can be set with any code up to 4 digits as requested by Air Traffic Controllers; so that they can see you on their radar screens and give you aircraft separation information. FYI!

Mauritz
Knows and sees all...

Providing you don't want to use the digits 8 or 9

[Teknav]

Hiya Wotname! Actually, in the US, sqwacking 7### on a transponder will get you the immediate attention of several federal agencies. You'd have to explain later why you used these codes; emergency codes start with #7. (By the way, I've never been to Perth; on my list of places to visit.)

Mauritz
Knows and sees all...

[capngeo]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I know someone who lost his rudder in heavy seas in the Gulf of Mexico. The Coast Guard took everyone off, would not let him stay behind. They sent him down to open the through holes, and instead he set a transponder to an unused frequency.

He got back to shore, hired a private boat, they followed the transponder, and rescued his boat. But the Coast Guard (to their credit, in rough seas) tried to tow the boat first, even though it had no steering. They couldn't do it.

This person undoubtedly violated some law, but his boat wasn't out there long, it wasn't in a commonly used traffic lane, and he had it back within 24 hours.

Come to think of it, that boat has a Hunter shell. There's that pesky rudder again ...

The infamous "someone" that everyone seems to know...

FWIW, there is NO WAY the CG will order someone off their own boat excepting when under arrest! I have had crew taken off at their request; the Coasties strongly suggested I come as well, but alas, it was still only a suggestion. It took a few extra unplanned days, but I sailed into port unassisted (well sort of.... TowBoatUS did take me the last mile as the winds were not satisfactory to sail into the slip, and the auxiliary was down).

[barnakiel]

I think cargo and other working ships do net get scuttled when abandoned. (?)

They are the bigger danger. (?)

Why bash a sailor and 'request' one to scuttle?

b.

[Delancey]

After reading "Another couple loses their sailboat" I'm thinking "Another couple gives up their sailboat" might be a more appropriate title. In my youth I was taught one should always step UP into the life-or-death raft when abandoning ship but that was a while ago when, as some here have stated, sailing was different.

Obviously, that their boat will survive without them is not on their minds when the leave it behind, but I wonder if having the mindset of needing to scuttle their vessel before exiting might make people think twice about pushing the panic button in the first place. However much I would enjoy chancing upon a fancy Swan drifting unattended I can't help but feel like not scuttling is a bit of a dick move.

Based on some opinions expressed here about what constitutes proper watching keeping amoungst shorthand passage makers, I have a hard time understanding how a vessel adrift, likely without running lights, could be considered anything other than a hazard to navigation regardless of the odds of encountering it.

[JPA Cate]

Hello everyone,

Even out in the far South Pacific, I can think of 3 boats which were abandoned that eventually floated ashore somewhere. In two of those instances, it was due to an injury to a male skipper, whose wife went with him when rescued. In that type of case, I wonder what factors led to her decision to accompany him, most particularly whether she felt capable to make a landfall singlehanded, and to deal with Immigration officials when port was made. In one of those cases, the woman was a newbie, and I don't think she had much choice, it's hard to get a 2nd skipper to someone in the middle of the Coral Sea.

In the other, both were terrified and wanted off the boat, which was in a major storm, and the boat was later located afloat. I think I'm seeing the inability of landlubbers to really respect the sea. Until you've survived your first gale far from land it is difficult to imagine what to expect, both of the sea and of yourself.

[Group9]

I think if I was intentionally abandoning my boat, of my own accord, I would scuttle it. If the Coast Guard, or someone else, was forcing me to get off, then I think they can make the decision on what to do with my vessel themselves.

[Wrong]

Before scuttling my boat I'd consider the following factors:

Why am I leaving the boat?

-Injury or Health emergency.
-Damage to hull and or superstructure, including portlites that allow significant water ingress.
-Are sails so damaged as to prevent sailing her to safety.
-Is engine inoperative AND sails damaged as above?
-Conditions preclude making repair and expelling enough water to keep the boat afloat is unlikely.

What is the distance from land, is it to leeward or windward?
What sort of vessel traffic is in the area?
What kind of radio contact have I been able to establish with others? If none,...
Is a tow available and will conditions permit towing?
Is there enough charge in the batteries to keep my l.e.d. mast head navigation lights lit to alert boaters until I can get back to recover the boat if still afloat?

Whether scuttling makes sense will depend upon the answers to these questions and probably more.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by capngeo

The infamous "someone" that everyone seems to know...

FWIW, there is NO WAY the CG will order someone off their own boat excepting when under arrest! I have had crew taken off at their request; the Coasties strongly suggested I come as well, but alas, it was still only a suggestion. It took a few extra unplanned days, but I sailed into port unassisted (well sort of.... TowBoatUS did take me the last mile as the winds were not satisfactory to sail into the slip, and the auxiliary was down).

Oh I know exactly who it is and know him personally. However, I don't have his permission to blab his name all ovver the Internet.

I don't know why the Coasties INSISTED he come, but they did, and they told him to scuttle his boat. Instead he set his transponder so he could come back and get it.

Since I know him and don't know you, i'm going to believe him. You believe whatever you care to.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Hello everyone,

Even out in the far South Pacific, I can think of 3 boats which were abandoned that eventually floated ashore somewhere. In two of those instances, it was due to an injury to a male skipper, whose wife went with him when rescued. In that type of case, I wonder what factors led to her decision to accompany him, most particularly whether she felt capable to make a landfall singlehanded, and to deal with Immigration officials when port was made. In one of those cases, the woman was a newbie, and I don't think she had much choice, it's hard to get a 2nd skipper to someone in the middle of the Coral Sea.

In the other, both were terrified and wanted off the boat, which was in a major storm, and the boat was later located afloat. I think I'm seeing the inability of landlubbers to really respect the sea. Until you've survived your first gale far from land it is difficult to imagine what to expect, both of the sea and of yourself.

Just because you think your life is in iminent danger doesn't mean it is. In the "Perfect Storm," the captain of the ship that went down thought he could handle it, and couldn't. It's a judgment call, and IMO I'm not going to suddenly condemn sailors because the boat actually survived. It might not have. To me that's disrespecting the power of the sea -- assuming you can survive anything because you're in a boat.

It was that kind of hubris that lead to such a high death toll when the TITANIC went down -- the ship's owners just didn't think she could sink, so they weren't fully prepared.

[SaltyMonkey]

I wonder how many sailors would NOT abandon their boats, instead of hitting the panic button if suddenly it was required that you scuttle to be rescued.

[Crimea Cruiser]

Instead of scuttling just sends the coordinates to a Navy destroyer or sub. They can use as drone practice for cruise missiles!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Oh I know exactly who it is and know him personally. However, I don't have his permission to blab his name all ovver the Internet.

I don't know why the Coasties INSISTED he come, but they did, and they told him to scuttle his boat. Instead he set his transponder so he could come back and get it.

Since I know him and don't know you, i'm going to believe him. You believe whatever you care to.

Any chance of getting some technical details of this transponder from your friend?

The term transponder is a very generic one and can apply to a whole raft of radio devices. While I am very aware of the general principles of transponders and have hands on experience installing and repairing aviation transponders I am sure the transponder your friend used is a very different animal.

So I would be very interested to know more about the actual one your friend used, even just a manufacturer and/or model number would be a good start.
I don't know of any sailors who actually carry one so I can't ask them.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Any chance of getting some technical details of this transponder from your friend?

The term transponder is a very generic one and can apply to a whole raft of radio devices. While I am very aware of the general principles of transponders and have hands on experience installing and repairing aviation transponders I am sure the transponder your friend used is a very different animal.

So I would be very interested to know more about the actual one your friend used, even just a manufacturer and/or model number would be a good start.
I don't know of any sailors who actually carry one so I can't ask them.

Sorry, no. I described him as an "acquaintance," not a friend, and I don't know how widely he wants the nitty-gritty details out there. "Transponder" was the word used, and I'm sure if anyone else wants to equip their boat with one they can research pretty well.

He was in a race where everyone participating was required to carry and use one. That was pretty cool because you could get online and follow the progress of every single boat in the race. I don't think it's something he would have normally had on the boat himself.

I know the guy to be someone who doesn't tell elaborately embroidered tales -- with his experience, the truth is quite interesting enough. I know him, and his reputation, and I believe him. And, I know he got his boat back, and that he has raced her since then.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Sorry, no. I described him as an "acquaintance," not a friend, and I don't know how widely he wants the nitty-gritty details out there. "Transponder" was the word used, and I'm sure if anyone else wants to equip their boat with one they can research pretty well.

He was in a race where everyone participating was required to carry and use one. That was pretty cool because you could get online and follow the progress of every single boat in the race. I don't think it's something he would have normally had on the boat himself.

I know the guy to be someone who doesn't tell elaborately embroidered tales -- with his experience, the truth is quite interesting enough. I know him, and his reputation, and I believe him. And, I know he got his boat back, and that he has raced her since then.

Geez Louise, I wasn't asking for his nitty-gritty details to be broadcast all over the web, I was just interested in knowing the either the manufacturer or model number of the transponder he used. CF seemed as good a place to start the research as any and this thread in particular was also appropriate, or so I thought.

And I apologise for calling him your friend when he is only your "acquaintance" .