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Old 27-08-2013, 12:36   #31
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Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Geez Louise, I wasn't asking for his nitty-gritty details to be broadcast all over the web, I was just interested in knowing the either the manufacturer or model number of the transponder he used. CF seemed as good a place to start the research as any and this thread in particular was also appropriate, or so I thought.

And I apologise for calling him your friend when he is only your "acquaintance" .

Geez, Louise, indeed!

Oh, the apology is mine. I (wrongly) assumed that you would realize that one can ask questions of a friend that they can't ask of someone they don't know at all. Once I had (again) described him as an acquaintance and not a friend, I THOUGHT you would realize that this is not someone I can call up and start grilling about something that happened to him. That's why I made the distinction -- so you would understand that asking him for details wouldn't really be the right thing for me to do personally.

And, you didn't want to start research. you wanted me to start your research for you.

He may not have bought the transponder. He may well have had to return it to the race committee. I have no idea.

You're a clever fellow, and you've been around boats for a while. I have no doubt that you can find a suitable transponder without my help. I'm not going to ask someone I don't know all that well to start the research off for someone I don't know at all.
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Old 27-08-2013, 12:37   #32
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Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

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Geez, Louise, indeed!

Oh, the apology is mine. I (wrongly) assumed that you would realize that one can ask questions of a friend that they can't ask of someone they don't know at all. Once I had (again) described him as an acquaintance and not a friend, I THOUGHT you would realize that this is not someone I can call up and start grilling about something that happened to him. That's why I made the distinction -- so you would understand that asking him for details wouldn't really be the right thing for me to do personally.

And, you didn't want to start research. you wanted me to start your research for you.

He may not have bought the transponder. He may well have had to return it to the race committee. I have no idea.

You're a clever fellow, and you've been around boats for a while. I have no doubt that you can find a suitable transponder without my help. I'm not going to ask someone I don't know all that well to start the research off for someone I don't know at all.

Correction -- not someone I "don't know at all" but someone i "don'g know well at all." Sorry for the word left out.
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Old 27-08-2013, 12:45   #33
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Re: Abandoning Ship, Maybe Scuttle it Too?

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I'm a bit confused, wouldn't scuttling make more sense after life rafts or rescue became available? If I lived before those options, I don't think I'd be deliberately scuttling anything, since I'd have nowhere else to go and would rather stay above water as long as possible.

Scuttling when taken off the vessel came more from a naval tradition and had more to do with keeping things from other hands I thought.

That being said, if I had to be taken off my boat, and I didn't have a reasonable way to mark it for prompt recovery, down it goes. I've thought about it a lot, and to me the potential liability, and risk to others are too significant without having a strong chance of recovery in short order.

In many old stories it seems that sailors ending up with boats on reefs could later recover from there. Seems like these days you'd have to pay for the environmental impact studies, repairs to the reef or the sand and rock, and for the removal of the boat, whether or not it ess still usable. Cheaper to replace the boat imo.
Certainly glad that Capt Cook didn't decide to scuttle his vessel off the Great Barrier Reef but instead pulled her shore, careened her and repaired her over a year to go on continue his explorations... what a guy!
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Old 27-08-2013, 12:47   #34
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Re: Abandoning Ship, Maybe Scuttle it Too?

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Certainly glad that Capt Cook didn't decide to scuttle his vessel off the Great Barrier Reef but instead pulled her shore, careened her and repaired her over a year to go on continue his explorations... what a guy!

Not that he wasn't a great man and all, but it was also his best option for survival -- to have a seaworthy boat to get home in.

That's what I would base my choices on, too -- survival.
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Old 27-08-2013, 12:52   #35
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Re: Abandoning Ship, Maybe Scuttle it Too?

Got that right, Raku! It was just a little too far for BoatUS to get to him for a tow. It was either do it his way or starve to death and be picked off by the aboriginies! He was one of my heros and his original log is in the Sydney Maritime Museum in Sydney... Got a chance to read parts of it about 20 years ago. Cheers, Phil
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Old 27-08-2013, 13:01   #36
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I know someone who lost his rudder in heavy seas in the Gulf of Mexico. The Coast Guard took everyone off, would not let him stay behind. They sent him down to open the through holes, and instead he set a transponder to an unused frequency.

He got back to shore, hired a private boat, they followed the transponder, and rescued his boat. But the Coast Guard (to their credit, in rough seas) tried to tow the boat first, even though it had no steering. They couldn't do it.

This person undoubtedly violated some law, but his boat wasn't out there long, it wasn't in a commonly used traffic lane, and he had it back within 24 hours.

Come to think of it, that boat has a Hunter shell. There's that pesky rudder again ...
Could you ask him how did he change the transponder frequency? Mine doesn't have a keyboard or interface.
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Old 27-08-2013, 13:09   #37
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Re: Abandoning Ship, Maybe Scuttle it Too?

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Got that right, Raku! It was just a little too far for BoatUS to get to him for a tow. It was either do it his way or starve to death and be picked off by the aboriginies! He was one of my heros and his original log is in the Sydney Maritime Museum in Sydney... Got a chance to read parts of it about 20 years ago. Cheers, Phil

It is astounding when you think of the monumental risks these great explorers took. I think if we'd looked at the death toll for the early ocean-going explorers and in our space program, we'd find that it was a lot safer to fly to the moon strapped to an explosive rocket than to do what Magellan, Cook, etc. did.
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Old 27-08-2013, 13:11   #38
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Re: Abandoning Ship, Maybe Scuttle it Too?

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Could you ask him how did he change the transponder frequency? Mine doesn't have a keyboard or interface.

Sorry to hear your transponder wouldn't be up to the job.
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Old 27-08-2013, 13:37   #39
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Sorry to hear your transponder wouldn't be up to the job.
Don't care about sorry. Was a legitimate question. Could you ask your resource how he did it?

Get back to me then.

Thanks.
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Old 27-08-2013, 13:46   #40
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The infamous "someone" that everyone seems to know...

FWIW, there is NO WAY the CG will order someone off their own boat excepting when under arrest! I have had crew taken off at their request; the Coasties strongly suggested I come as well, but alas, it was still only a suggestion. It took a few extra unplanned days, but I sailed into port unassisted (well sort of.... TowBoatUS did take me the last mile as the winds were not satisfactory to sail into the slip, and the auxiliary was down).
You are totally right, however when you call for assistance under a mayday you will get a response that involves not entirely voluntary departure from your vessel. If you are close enough to shore to have a rescue diver drop onto your boat from a helo and you then decide you "maybe don't need rescue right now" - you can understand the "unofficial and off the record" pressure that happens in the cockpit while that hepo is hovering and blowing through petrol....
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Old 27-08-2013, 13:56   #41
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Sorry to hear your transponder wouldn't be up to the job.
Seriously, I know a couple hot shot EE (electrical engineers), and am very interested in what "off" frequencies satellites will transmit and how to avail of these frequencies via home grown RF technology.

Or maybe I am calling total BS on you and your "friend" and that post....
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Old 27-08-2013, 13:57   #42
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Re: Abandoning Ship, Maybe Scuttle it Too?

Maybe the USCG figures that if you scuttle your boat, neither you nor it will bother them again so, you know, scuttle the damned thing and be done with it?

As if they're going to send an armed boarding party to forcibly pull anyone off a boat if you say "You go 'way now." ?

Raku-
Technically, there are no unused frequencies. They're all allocated, usually by ITU convention, and they're all allocated based on usage. Not used? Then it gets allocated to someone else, sooner or later. Transponders usually have a limited range of frequency options built into them, targeted to specific services. No mysteries there except which one he used.
Programmable transponder on a boat? Using non-standard frequencies? Most unusual.
But when you say you don't know any druggies...Have you run background checks on everyone you have ever met? One never knows what the nice folks next door really do for a living, unless one is The Shadow.
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Old 27-08-2013, 14:09   #43
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Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

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Any chance of getting some technical details of this transponder from your friend?
Class B AIS??

If that is the only electricker left running on your boat it is going to run for quite some time....
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Old 27-08-2013, 14:26   #44
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Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

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Class B AIS??

If that is the only electricker left running on your boat it is going to run for quite some time....

I've been thinking about this because I don't know ship about transponders. It's possible that I misunderstood, and he just turned the transponder on from the race and did not change the frequency. When it comes to anything electrical I know very little. And, it has been a good while since he told the story. The way I recall it, he changed the frequency, but it may be otherwise. the point is that he used that signal to go back, and find, and then save, his boat.
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Old 27-08-2013, 14:45   #45
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Re: Abandoning Ship, Maybe Scuttle it Too?

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Don't care about sorry. Was a legitimate question. Could you ask your resource how he did it?

Get back to me then.

Thanks.

What IS the problem here? Do you have the other person who asked that filtered? You still would have seen my answer. No, I'm not going to call up someone I don't know well and quiz him about how he outfoxed the Coast Guard so I can blast it all over the Internet. At some point people would start to figure out who it was.

Personal boundaries. Some things are appropriate and some are not. The crows are circling; they think they've found something to peck at.
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