Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-08-2013, 05:09   #16
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,333
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknav View Post
Hiya Captain 58! When flying, aircraft transponders can be set with any code up to 4 digits as requested by Air Traffic Controllers; so that they can see you on their radar screens and give you aircraft separation information. FYI!

Mauritz
Knows and sees all...
Providing you don't want to use the digits 8 or 9
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 06:11   #17
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Hiya Wotname! Actually, in the US, sqwacking 7### on a transponder will get you the immediate attention of several federal agencies. You'd have to explain later why you used these codes; emergency codes start with #7. (By the way, I've never been to Perth; on my list of places to visit.)

Mauritz
Knows and sees all...
__________________

__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 07:15   #18
Mooderator
 
capngeo's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Key West & Sarasota
Boat: Cal 28 "Happy Days"
Posts: 4,211
Images: 12
Send a message via Yahoo to capngeo Send a message via Skype™ to capngeo
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
I know someone who lost his rudder in heavy seas in the Gulf of Mexico. The Coast Guard took everyone off, would not let him stay behind. They sent him down to open the through holes, and instead he set a transponder to an unused frequency.

He got back to shore, hired a private boat, they followed the transponder, and rescued his boat. But the Coast Guard (to their credit, in rough seas) tried to tow the boat first, even though it had no steering. They couldn't do it.

This person undoubtedly violated some law, but his boat wasn't out there long, it wasn't in a commonly used traffic lane, and he had it back within 24 hours.

Come to think of it, that boat has a Hunter shell. There's that pesky rudder again ...
The infamous "someone" that everyone seems to know...

FWIW, there is NO WAY the CG will order someone off their own boat excepting when under arrest! I have had crew taken off at their request; the Coasties strongly suggested I come as well, but alas, it was still only a suggestion. It took a few extra unplanned days, but I sailed into port unassisted (well sort of.... TowBoatUS did take me the last mile as the winds were not satisfactory to sail into the slip, and the auxiliary was down).
__________________
Any fool with a big enough checkbook can BUY a boat; it takes a SPECIAL type of fool to build his own! -Capngeo
capngeo is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 07:51   #19
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

I think cargo and other working ships do net get scuttled when abandoned. (?)

They are the bigger danger. (?)

Why bash a sailor and 'request' one to scuttle?

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 08:28   #20
Registered User
 
Delancey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Boat: sunk by irma
Posts: 3,464
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

After reading "Another couple loses their sailboat" I'm thinking "Another couple gives up their sailboat" might be a more appropriate title. In my youth I was taught one should always step UP into the life-or-death raft when abandoning ship but that was a while ago when, as some here have stated, sailing was different.

Obviously, that their boat will survive without them is not on their minds when the leave it behind, but I wonder if having the mindset of needing to scuttle their vessel before exiting might make people think twice about pushing the panic button in the first place. However much I would enjoy chancing upon a fancy Swan drifting unattended I can't help but feel like not scuttling is a bit of a dick move.

Based on some opinions expressed here about what constitutes proper watching keeping amoungst shorthand passage makers, I have a hard time understanding how a vessel adrift, likely without running lights, could be considered anything other than a hazard to navigation regardless of the odds of encountering it.
__________________
Delancey is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 08:59   #21
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,710
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Hello everyone,

Even out in the far South Pacific, I can think of 3 boats which were abandoned that eventually floated ashore somewhere. In two of those instances, it was due to an injury to a male skipper, whose wife went with him when rescued. In that type of case, I wonder what factors led to her decision to accompany him, most particularly whether she felt capable to make a landfall singlehanded, and to deal with Immigration officials when port was made. In one of those cases, the woman was a newbie, and I don't think she had much choice, it's hard to get a 2nd skipper to someone in the middle of the Coral Sea.

In the other, both were terrified and wanted off the boat, which was in a major storm, and the boat was later located afloat. I think I'm seeing the inability of landlubbers to really respect the sea. Until you've survived your first gale far from land it is difficult to imagine what to expect, both of the sea and of yourself.
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 09:05   #22
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,599
Images: 7
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

I think if I was intentionally abandoning my boat, of my own accord, I would scuttle it. If the Coast Guard, or someone else, was forcing me to get off, then I think they can make the decision on what to do with my vessel themselves.
__________________
Group9 is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 10:22   #23
Registered User
 
Wrong's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,702
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Before scuttling my boat I'd consider the following factors:

Why am I leaving the boat?

-Injury or Health emergency.
-Damage to hull and or superstructure, including portlites that allow significant water ingress.
-Are sails so damaged as to prevent sailing her to safety.
-Is engine inoperative AND sails damaged as above?
-Conditions preclude making repair and expelling enough water to keep the boat afloat is unlikely.

What is the distance from land, is it to leeward or windward?
What sort of vessel traffic is in the area?
What kind of radio contact have I been able to establish with others? If none,...
Is a tow available and will conditions permit towing?
Is there enough charge in the batteries to keep my l.e.d. mast head navigation lights lit to alert boaters until I can get back to recover the boat if still afloat?

Whether scuttling makes sense will depend upon the answers to these questions and probably more.
__________________
Wrong is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 11:00   #24
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
The infamous "someone" that everyone seems to know...

FWIW, there is NO WAY the CG will order someone off their own boat excepting when under arrest! I have had crew taken off at their request; the Coasties strongly suggested I come as well, but alas, it was still only a suggestion. It took a few extra unplanned days, but I sailed into port unassisted (well sort of.... TowBoatUS did take me the last mile as the winds were not satisfactory to sail into the slip, and the auxiliary was down).

Oh I know exactly who it is and know him personally. However, I don't have his permission to blab his name all ovver the Internet.

I don't know why the Coasties INSISTED he come, but they did, and they told him to scuttle his boat. Instead he set his transponder so he could come back and get it.

Since I know him and don't know you, i'm going to believe him. You believe whatever you care to.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 11:04   #25
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Hello everyone,

Even out in the far South Pacific, I can think of 3 boats which were abandoned that eventually floated ashore somewhere. In two of those instances, it was due to an injury to a male skipper, whose wife went with him when rescued. In that type of case, I wonder what factors led to her decision to accompany him, most particularly whether she felt capable to make a landfall singlehanded, and to deal with Immigration officials when port was made. In one of those cases, the woman was a newbie, and I don't think she had much choice, it's hard to get a 2nd skipper to someone in the middle of the Coral Sea.

In the other, both were terrified and wanted off the boat, which was in a major storm, and the boat was later located afloat. I think I'm seeing the inability of landlubbers to really respect the sea. Until you've survived your first gale far from land it is difficult to imagine what to expect, both of the sea and of yourself.

Just because you think your life is in iminent danger doesn't mean it is. In the "Perfect Storm," the captain of the ship that went down thought he could handle it, and couldn't. It's a judgment call, and IMO I'm not going to suddenly condemn sailors because the boat actually survived. It might not have. To me that's disrespecting the power of the sea -- assuming you can survive anything because you're in a boat.

It was that kind of hubris that lead to such a high death toll when the TITANIC went down -- the ship's owners just didn't think she could sink, so they weren't fully prepared.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 16:26   #26
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

I wonder how many sailors would NOT abandon their boats, instead of hitting the panic button if suddenly it was required that you scuttle to be rescued.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline  
Old 25-08-2013, 17:01   #27
Registered User
 
Crimea Cruiser's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Crimea
Boat: Colin Archer 36', steel
Posts: 358
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Instead of scuttling just sends the coordinates to a Navy destroyer or sub. They can use as drone practice for cruise missiles!
__________________
If it floats it's a boat, or perhaps it's f#cal matter!
Crimea Cruiser is offline  
Old 26-08-2013, 06:05   #28
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,333
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Oh I know exactly who it is and know him personally. However, I don't have his permission to blab his name all ovver the Internet.

I don't know why the Coasties INSISTED he come, but they did, and they told him to scuttle his boat. Instead he set his transponder so he could come back and get it.

Since I know him and don't know you, i'm going to believe him. You believe whatever you care to.
Any chance of getting some technical details of this transponder from your friend?

The term transponder is a very generic one and can apply to a whole raft of radio devices. While I am very aware of the general principles of transponders and have hands on experience installing and repairing aviation transponders I am sure the transponder your friend used is a very different animal.

So I would be very interested to know more about the actual one your friend used, even just a manufacturer and/or model number would be a good start.
I don't know of any sailors who actually carry one so I can't ask them.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline  
Old 26-08-2013, 08:16   #29
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Any chance of getting some technical details of this transponder from your friend?

The term transponder is a very generic one and can apply to a whole raft of radio devices. While I am very aware of the general principles of transponders and have hands on experience installing and repairing aviation transponders I am sure the transponder your friend used is a very different animal.

So I would be very interested to know more about the actual one your friend used, even just a manufacturer and/or model number would be a good start.
I don't know of any sailors who actually carry one so I can't ask them.
Sorry, no. I described him as an "acquaintance," not a friend, and I don't know how widely he wants the nitty-gritty details out there. "Transponder" was the word used, and I'm sure if anyone else wants to equip their boat with one they can research pretty well.

He was in a race where everyone participating was required to carry and use one. That was pretty cool because you could get online and follow the progress of every single boat in the race. I don't think it's something he would have normally had on the boat himself.

I know the guy to be someone who doesn't tell elaborately embroidered tales -- with his experience, the truth is quite interesting enough. I know him, and his reputation, and I believe him. And, I know he got his boat back, and that he has raced her since then.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline  
Old 27-08-2013, 07:31   #30
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,333
Re: Abandoning ship, maybe scuttle it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Sorry, no. I described him as an "acquaintance," not a friend, and I don't know how widely he wants the nitty-gritty details out there. "Transponder" was the word used, and I'm sure if anyone else wants to equip their boat with one they can research pretty well.

He was in a race where everyone participating was required to carry and use one. That was pretty cool because you could get online and follow the progress of every single boat in the race. I don't think it's something he would have normally had on the boat himself.

I know the guy to be someone who doesn't tell elaborately embroidered tales -- with his experience, the truth is quite interesting enough. I know him, and his reputation, and I believe him. And, I know he got his boat back, and that he has raced her since then.
Geez Louise, I wasn't asking for his nitty-gritty details to be broadcast all over the web, I was just interested in knowing the either the manufacturer or model number of the transponder he used. CF seemed as good a place to start the research as any and this thread in particular was also appropriate, or so I thought.

And I apologise for calling him your friend when he is only your "acquaintance" .
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Abandoning Ship Mid Ocean Reefmagnet Seamanship & Boat Handling 31 03-03-2013 17:08
Speed Limits - Simple Question ausaviator Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 24 16-02-2012 14:52



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.