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Old 19-07-2013, 20:40   #226
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
Are you making this recommendation based on your personal experience or are you making it based on what you have read on CF and in books?

For someone that has never been offshore and in no more weather than a Florida thunderstorm, prescribing what CF sailors should or shouldn't do in areas significantly beyond your experience base seems to be supremely arrogant.

Just out or curiosity, what would be "enough experience" to cross oceans in your more than humble opinion?

I'm sorry. Did you not see the word "prematurely?" Go back and read again, and perhaps what I meant to say will be more clear. Did you miss where I was using myself as an example of someone who should *not* do it? You decide for yourself what's right for you (sweet smile). And, I think it's fascinating that you think you know what I have experienced on others' boats. But whatever ... You have a happy evening now.
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Old 20-07-2013, 03:53   #227
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Not what I was talking about, but whatever ...
Nope... its what I'm talking about...
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Old 20-07-2013, 05:01   #228
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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I was talking about the thrashing people we don't even know take for making a life-and-death decision, like calling for SAR or abandoning ship. My point is that we can only make such calls based on our experience, our knowledge of our boats, etc.. and that somehow it turns out the boat has survived, but that we here seem quick to criticize people for doing this.
The trick is to genuinely not give a sh#t about what other folks think or say (real life or online), those who are capable of learning from a shared experience will, the others? - well, as I said......who gives a sh#t .


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I'm not going to sail around the world or even "just" to the Azores. I don't have the skills for it and the wrong boat for it. But if I were on my way to Key West and thought that I and my crew were in real peril, I would call SAR, and I think that's a better call than being dead and having others say "Well, good for her -- she went down with the ship." I wasn't talking about mistakes we've all made, but life and death decisions. (Read my blog -- I own up to plenty of mistakes there.)
Those decisions are either very wise or because even an Admiral a broken clock is right twice a day.......but my opinion does not matter in the slightest - as I won't be on the boat with you.

If someone challenges your above decisions, don't take it personally - even when the decisions are informed others may have valid points, or at least interesting ones to add to the pot for now or for later - or they may not , in which case they get filed firmly in the drawer marked background noise........
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Old 20-07-2013, 06:26   #229
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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The trick is to genuinely not give a sh#t about what other folks think or say (real life or online), those who are capable of learning from a shared experience will, the others? - well, as I said......who gives a sh#t .




Those decisions are either very wise or because even an Admiral a broken clock is right twice a day.......but my opinion does not matter in the slightest - as I won't be on the boat with you.

If someone challenges your above decisions, don't take it personally - even when the decisions are informed others may have valid points, or at least interesting ones to add to the pot for now or for later - or they may not , in which case they get filed firmly in the drawer marked background noise........

Don't worry. I didn't take it personally. I wanted to offer a valium, and found a way to NOT say what came to mind immediately.

I'd love to saile to the Azores as crew ...
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Old 20-07-2013, 08:41   #230
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Wolfhound was spotted 600 miles east of Bermuda and boarded at the end of June, nearly 5 months after she was abandoned:

ABANDONED BOATS: Swan 48 Spotted Again, Plus Another Hits the Beach | Sailfeed

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"Michael Geagan dropped a comment on my original post about the abandoned Swan 48 Wolfhound, ex-Bella Luna, to the effect that he located the boat about 600 miles east of Bermuda and boarded it on June 29. He reports the rig is still standing, but the boat has taken on a fair amount of water and that damage is likely extensive. She’s still out there, but Michael describes her as “a marginal salvage case.” "
Doesn't look like she took that much water judging from the waterline in the photo. She's still floating with the rig still standing. I'm sure someone would not turn away a 48 foot Swan with a little water damage. Once again boats show they are tougher than the humans who sail them.
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Old 20-07-2013, 20:31   #231
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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She's still floating with the rig still standing.
Yep. Not surprised.

Without Epirb, sailors tried harder to stay alive. These days the average guy who can buy a great boat but isn't a real sailor knows the big red button brings help. And the button gets mashed when it gets uncomfortable.

Life and death is one thing, uncomfortable another.
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Old 20-07-2013, 20:33   #232
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Yep. Not surprised.

Without Epirb, sailors tried harder to stay alive. These days the average guy who can buy a great boat but isn't a real sailor knows the big red button brings help. And the button gets mashed when it gets uncomfortable.

Life and death is one thing, uncomfortable another.

Where is the proof of this?
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Old 21-07-2013, 01:17   #233
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Without Epirb, sailors tried harder to stay alive. These days the average guy who can buy a great boat but isn't a real sailor knows the big red button brings help. And the button gets mashed when it gets uncomfortable.

Life and death is one thing, uncomfortable another.
I'd be willing to bet that EPIRB has also brought about a reduction in the cases where boats have come back with one or more of the crew dead or seriously injured. Instead of sitting around on board getting battered to death but ultimately bringing the vessel home safely, they now abandon and bring the crew back safely instead.
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Old 21-07-2013, 02:42   #234
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I'd be willing to bet that EPIRB has also brought about a reduction in the cases where boats have come back with one or more of the crew dead or seriously injured. Instead of sitting around on board getting battered to death but ultimately bringing the vessel home safely, they now abandon and bring the crew back safely instead.
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Old 21-07-2013, 03:53   #235
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

Actually, that's another part of it. sailing has gone from a profession to a leisure time activity over the past century. The sort of risks professional sailors of a century ago accepted without a thought would turn the average recreational sailor into a gibbering wreck.
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Old 21-07-2013, 05:08   #236
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

Yup, I miss the good ole days, at sea 5 years at a time, being flogged on the poop deck, then rinsed down with saltwater. Scurvy, and VD. Lovely.
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Old 21-07-2013, 07:26   #237
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Actually, that's another part of it. sailing has gone from a profession to a leisure time activity over the past century. The sort of risks professional sailors of a century ago accepted without a thought would turn the average recreational sailor into a gibbering wreck.
For sure the stuff that commercial sailors in ye olden days went through would make pretty much all of us poop ourselves, and join many in an early and watery grave........but recreational sailing has also undergone a transition over the last 5 or 6 decades.....from the norm of:

- being the preserve of the moneyed classes;
- to those seeking an adventure and a challenge, and fully aware that risk to life is involved;
- to nowadays those who are after an experience that involves little (if any? ) risk.

Not to say that it is wrong to seek to avoid killing self and family!, but nonetheless seems to be a very different purpose of boating and sailing to which I grew up with. Not saying better or worse, just been trying to put my finger on the difference in attitudes and expectations........
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Old 21-07-2013, 07:41   #238
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" I need more challenges in my life... a sense of achievement..."

"MOMEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ......"

We've all read the (too) many posts from newbies who have money but no skills or experience and they're going to sail around the world, gumdangit! The ASA courses might talk about storm tactics but can't practice it.

It just makes sense to the modern new sailor to abandon ship. And they do, and we know from the number of sinking boats still afloat weeks and months later.

The boat is just a thing. And it's insured! What's the issue?, is how the thinking goes.

Some of us, and not just the old pfarts, have more affinity with boats. And the experience to know that as certainly as the wind came up it will lay back down. As Bash has said: "The ocean is just not that scary." It scares me but what the hey?

Anyway, I've lost the EPIRB wars long ago. No need to retype all the stuff or re-argue a losing battle.

Edit: David's post above says it best!
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Old 21-07-2013, 09:28   #239
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

Early sailing was done in the pursuit of commerce, and migration to greener pastures. Only modern folks have found it to be a sport. Which brings a whole new level of commerce, shore side.
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Old 21-07-2013, 10:01   #240
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“There's no thrill in easy sailing when the skies are clear and blue, there's no joy in merely doing things which any one can do. But there is some satisfaction that is mighty sweet to take, when you reach a destination that you never thought you'd make” - unknown
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