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Old 24-05-2013, 03:01   #181
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Just clear a few points. Firstly the skipper is a very experienced sailor and not just racing

Secondly the USCG didn't rescue them.

Dave
Dave,

I've read the articles and don't recall seeing anything where the skipper was described as "very experienced OCEAN sailor", but that's besides the point.

Let's face it - he/they did not do a very good job of getting this boat ready for sea, especially for a run south from the upper eastern US in February/march.

Sorry, I won't call the the guy stupid, but let's say less thorough than what is called for.

Floohish Sailor is a member of the same club as this skipper and promised to see if he could have a chat with him about what happened.

Foolish - Talked to him yet?
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Old 24-05-2013, 04:37   #182
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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very experienced OCEAN sailor", but that's besides the point.
If you sail out of Ireland, down the altantic coast or even around the British Isles, you are sailing at 54 North , believe you me anyone with any sailing experience, is "OCEAN" qualified from up here.

Anyway Ocean sailing is a doodle. Coastal sailing is where the trouble is.

Dave
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Old 24-05-2013, 05:18   #183
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
If you sail out of Ireland, down the altantic coast or even around the British Isles, you are sailing at 54 North , believe you me anyone with any sailing experience, is "OCEAN" qualified from up here.

Anyway Ocean sailing is a doodle. Coastal sailing is where the trouble is.

Dave
Dave

I sail at 56 North.

Ocean sailing may be a doodle, but unless you've planned your passage, the chances are you will end up in deep sh*t. This skipper did not plan his passage nor did he make sure his boat was seaworthy (I'm basing this on the articles that have been written - if they are not correct - then I will cheerfully admit I'm wrong). He picked up a boat that had been on the hard for a year, the charger/inverter mysteriously disappeared between the survey and taking over the boat. Apparently he didn't cleanse his fuel or tanks, left with only an Ipad for navigation, had no tools on board (or spare parts) and did this in February and headed south. (Gulf stream? Wind over current? Maybe he never heard of it?) It doesn't seem like he took any really sensible precautions before setting out.

Sorry, I'm not impressed with his skippering skills.
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Old 24-05-2013, 05:25   #184
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Dave

I sail at 56 North.

Ocean sailing may be a doodle, but unless you've planned your passage, the chances are you will end up in deep sh*t. This skipper did not plan his passage nor did he make sure his boat was seaworthy (I'm basing this on the articles that have been written - if they are not correct - then I will cheerfully admit I'm wrong). He picked up a boat that had been on the hard for a year, the charger/inverter mysteriously disappeared between the survey and taking over the boat. Apparently he didn't cleanse his fuel or tanks, left with only an Ipad for navigation, had no tools on board (or spare parts) and did this in February and headed south. (Gulf stream? Wind over current? Maybe he never heard of it?) It doesn't seem like he took any really sensible precautions before setting out.

Sorry, I'm not impressed with his skippering skills.
maybe maybe not, but until someone who actually knows teh person reports in , Ill reserve my judgement, Experience has thought me (a) dont rely on 'media' accounts, and (b) I wasnt there and cant judge and ( c) life before boats.

dave
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Old 24-05-2013, 06:28   #185
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Dave ... Ocean sailing may be a doodle, but unless you've planned your passage, the chances are you will end up in deep sh*t. This skipper did not plan his passage nor did he make sure his boat was seaworthy (I'm basing this on the articles that have been written - if they are not correct - then I will cheerfully admit I'm wrong). He picked up a boat that had been on the hard for a year, the charger/inverter mysteriously disappeared between the survey and taking over the boat. Apparently he didn't cleanse his fuel or tanks, left with only an Ipad for navigation, had no tools on board (or spare parts) and did this in February and headed south. (Gulf stream? Wind over current? Maybe he never heard of it?) It doesn't seem like he took any really sensible precautions before setting out.

Sorry, I'm not impressed with his skippering skills.


Dave, I too hope you're correct because if not this is a story about the most foolish experienced ocean sailors in recent memory. One thing I find annoying about life is that there is always a handful of folks who are nice to a fault. No matter what, they'll find some bit of positive spin to put on things. And the rest of us are just mean. It may be decorative but a turd in the punch bowl will change the flavour.
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Old 24-05-2013, 06:31   #186
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Dave, I too hope you're correct because if not this is a story about the most foolish experienced ocean sailors in recent memory
sadly in my experience , I can relate ever better( worse) ones , that I know of second hand. !

Dave
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Old 24-05-2013, 19:54   #187
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

Is this the boat: 48' Nautor Swan 48-127 for sale in Westbrook, CT, United States - 208364 - Boatshop24.com ?

If so she has dual Separ fuel filter and, given the engine h.p., I don't imagine you'd need more than one on line at a time.

The suite of sails is impressive.
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Old 25-05-2013, 00:12   #188
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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You're right about one thing

Dave
What's that?
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Old 18-07-2013, 04:18   #189
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

Wolfhound was spotted 600 miles east of Bermuda and boarded at the end of June, nearly 5 months after she was abandoned:

ABANDONED BOATS: Swan 48 Spotted Again, Plus Another Hits the Beach | Sailfeed

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"Michael Geagan dropped a comment on my original post about the abandoned Swan 48 Wolfhound, ex-Bella Luna, to the effect that he located the boat about 600 miles east of Bermuda and boarded it on June 29. He reports the rig is still standing, but the boat has taken on a fair amount of water and that damage is likely extensive. Shes still out there, but Michael describes her as a marginal salvage case. "
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Old 18-07-2013, 04:35   #190
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pirate Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

She's survived some pretty bad weather untended... sad end for her.
But WTF... its just a boat..
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Old 18-07-2013, 09:34   #191
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

A lot of people bandy the word experience in this discussion like it is some watershed between doing the right thing and doing the wrong thing. The suggestion often made is "IF the skipper would have been experienced in OCEAN crossings, then the likelihood is it would not have turned out this way" Although I agree with the principle, I'm not so sure it is that clear-cut. I'm happy to accept the captain was indeed experienced, and likely experienced enough to do this crossing. But he still made mistakes...

Experience doesn't prevent people from making hasty decisions, feeling pressure from delivery dates (especially having flown mates over), forgetting to properly forage, do a proper equipment list and so on and so forth.

I'm - in this exhalted company - extremely inexperienced in salt water sailing and have only done 120 miles in my own yacht so far but even with my inexperience I know better than to make some of the decisions made by this skipper. I would never set out on a trip like this making the following basic mistakes:

1. Underestimate the weather in Feb in the North Atlantic. The crew arrived knowing it was cold and stormy. Yet they set off in days with untested systems
2. Not taking at least a week to test all systems close to shore, especially in freezing conditions. They had to unexpectedly install new systems when they arrived - particularly the inverter which is the backbone of all electronic systems.
3. Not having a back-up camping stove
4. Not having oil filters, tension belts and other engine spares or possibly not knowing how to install them
5. Not knowing how to unclog the fuel lines
6. No hand held GPS.
7. Not switching on the invertor until the batteries were low. That to me really isn't smart. The engine should have been charging the batteries for the first couple of days as the engine was still running at that point.
8. Not having a separate starter battery. I had my boat's battery switching changed this year because I want to have a separate battery for starting the engine even if the main bank has gone down. Even if the engine doesn't run, it gives me additional capacity for the other systems. Besides that, on a crossing like this I would also carry another battery not hooked up but charged so that if my 4 batteries fail I still have a full one that is not hooked up to the system.

The decision made on day 7 seems a valid one to me. But the decisions on day minus 10 to day 4 seem rather rash and certainly have contributed to the necessity of the decision on day 7. And I suspect that the skipper based his decisions on past experience - it feels to me like someone who had not had things breaking on him before (conjecture but considering the story not unlikely), combined with pressure to get out of Connecticut due to weather systems, cold, and probably return flights.


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Old 18-07-2013, 09:49   #192
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

unless we get the skipper to come on here, well never know and given the likely insurance case, I suspect he'll never tell

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Old 18-07-2013, 12:20   #193
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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well never know
Even if the skipper came on here, and even if he didn't have insurance and liability to deal with, who says he would tell the correct and unbiased story? Chances would be quite small, even if the individual wanted to tell the truth - human memory being what it is.

The point is not to get the absolute truth out there - the point is to reconstruct a story so we can learn from other people's mistakes, whether the reconstruction is 100% correct or not. If you see a story about a teenager who crashed and who was just over the alcohol limit, do you say to your teenage daughter "well don't jump to conclusions that this driver's drunkenness was the cause of the accident - it could have been a brake line or a blown tyre. We were not there, we will never know".

I have been quite clear about what I think we cannot say anything about, and what I believe we can. Simple back-up systems were not aboard, that can't be denied, and that was a basic mistake.


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Old 18-07-2013, 13:35   #194
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

Just been reading this for the first time and one thing jumped out at me that hasn't been mentioned before. They realised that the batteries weren't charging on the Monday (day 3), when they were relatively close offshore near Cape Hatteras:



So the question is, why didn't they turn ashore and get it fixed at that point? According to the account they knew the batteries would die within 24 hours or so - sufficient time to get ashore somewhere like the Chesapeake, but not to get to Bermuda.

I've seen this phenomenon before when flying, where it is known as press-on-itis. The worst case was during a gliding (sailplane racing) competition where someone didn't quite have the height to get back to the airfield, but could get to the field just short. However, they kept trying and hit a tree in the car park - writing off a $100,000 glider. This strikes me as much the same - they were focussed on getting to Bermuda, and weren't willing to change their plans when circumstances changed.
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Old 18-07-2013, 13:40   #195
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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I've seen this phenomenon before when flying, where it is known as press-on-itis. The worst case was during a gliding (sailplane racing) competition where someone didn't quite have the height to get back to the airfield, but could get to the field just short. However, they kept trying and hit a tree in the car park - writing off a $100,000 glider. This strikes me as much the same - they were focussed on getting to Bermuda, and weren't willing to change their plans when circumstances changed.
Not just racing when gliding. I was first on the scene once when a short landing resulted in a glider go through a wire fence before threshold. Single wire, plastic canopy .....

Errors were made, a boat was unnecessarily lost, but at least all the crew are safe. Better to bail out too early than to leave it until it is too late. The skipper can't be accused of that at least.
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