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Old 18-04-2013, 16:59   #151
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Just because an object made out of plastic, wood and metal survives months after being abandoned does not mean that the soft meat bodies that were inside would have fared as well.
Sorry, i thought the last response was to this. My bad...
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Old 18-04-2013, 18:35   #152
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pirate Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

This will make one seasick, maybe two. I suspect Raku hasn't read from the beginning.
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Old 18-04-2013, 19:20   #153
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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This will make one seasick, maybe two. I suspect Raku hasn't read from the beginning.
Um ... and you haven't read to the end. I acknowledged that.
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Old 18-04-2013, 19:33   #154
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

Yeah. I lost track when you weren't going down with the ship.
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Old 18-04-2013, 19:57   #155
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

This thread is sinking... wheres the red button, too late......
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Old 18-04-2013, 21:30   #156
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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This thread is sinking... wheres the red button, too late......
....yes and apparently none of us have the sense to get off!
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Old 18-04-2013, 21:46   #157
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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....yes and apparently none of us have the sense to get off!
What? Just when it's getting interesting?

CANNONBALL into the liferaft!!!!
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Old 19-04-2013, 06:09   #158
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pirate Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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What? Just when it's getting interesting!
Nah, that was in the beginning. I think it's all been said now until the next abandonment. It'll probably be a big cat flipping. Preview of interview with the Capt:

"Yeah, it was rougher than hell! Sure, we knew we couldn't actually sink but dammit man! Everything was wet and soggy. Not even bread for sandwiches! And tired? We were all tired and just worn out. The wife was going to miss her show on the telly, and the fooking magna grill was tits up-side down. Plus, I cherish this crew! I have to. It's just the wife and her mother. Can you imagine what I'd have to listen to if I hadn't had the EPIRB? Well, I can. The boat? Who gives a flip about that? That's what insurance is for."
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Old 19-04-2013, 06:32   #159
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

Sorry, I know this is going to rub some the wrong way. The vessel is our lifeline here, we do everything possible to save the vessel, cause we are dead without it. I am not finding fault with these guys because they had to get off, our orientation is different, there is no safety net for us in the north pacific, the water is too cold and help is too far away, we are dependent on our vessel and ourselves to survive, even if we do push the big red button, it is often too rough for the USCG to mount a rescue.
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Old 19-04-2013, 06:54   #160
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Nah, that was in the beginning. I think it's all been said now until the next abandonment. It'll probably be a big cat flipping. Preview of interview with the Capt:

"Yeah, it was rougher than hell! Sure, we knew we couldn't actually sink but dammit man! Everything was wet and soggy. Not even bread for sandwiches! And tired? We were all tired and just worn out. The wife was going to miss her show on the telly, and the fooking magna grill was tits up-side down. Plus, I cherish this crew! I have to. It's just the wife and her mother. Can you imagine what I'd have to listen to if I hadn't had the EPIRB? Well, I can. The boat? Who gives a flip about that? That's what insurance is for."
I have to say that I do get frustrated with people dismissing calls for help with "but the good food was gone!" I've never heard anyone say anything remotely resembling the quote above.

People abandon ship because they believe there's a good chance that they'll die if they don't. They know it's not guaranteed. At that point they put the welfare of humans above the welfare of the boat. They may try to stay with the boat themselves if they can.

I know an outstanding sailor who called the Coast Guard to rescue his boat after it lost its rudder in extremely rough seas. He tried to negotiate with the CG so that he could stay aboard his boat alone, but the CG said "Everyone or nothing." I don't KNOW this, but I think they were making sure this person truly believed that leaving his boat adrift as a navigation hazard was really the only choice.

They did abandon ship, and the boat did survive (he cleverly hid a transponder signal giving off an obscure frequency instead of opening the seacocks as instructed. He went back out within 24 hours on a boat up to the job, and towed his boat to safety. Clever guy.) By the way, the CG did not come back at him for cleverly saving his boat.

But this all certainly wasn't done trivially or lightly.

And the owner of this boat certainly knew he coudn't take his boat safely into shallow water under the circumstances. By the way, he's marine construction expert. If there's been a way to rig a functional rudder, he would have done it. Now he travels with a spare rudder, although knowing the design of his boat and exactly how the rudder would be changed while in the water, I can't imagine being able to do it in a storm.

There's a lot I can't say about this because I have no right to expose this man to ridicule or even reasoned discussion on such a large, public forum, and to say more would reveal his identity, at least to some.

I just don't get mocking people who have to make life-or-death decisions. There can come a time, on any sailing vessel, when both staying on the boat and getting into the life raft or into a rescue boat are life-or-death decisions. This isn't like changing trains.
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Old 19-04-2013, 07:01   #161
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
Sorry, I know this is going to rub some the wrong way. The vessel is our lifeline here, we do everything possible to save the vessel, cause we are dead without it. I am not finding fault with these guys because they had to get off, our orientation is different, there is no safety net for us in the north pacific, the water is too cold and help is too far away, we are dependent on our vessel and ourselves to survive, even if we do push the big red button, it is often too rough for the USCG to mount a rescue.
What we do is dangerous. What you do can be extremely dangerous. Somestimes pushing the EPIRB may only help ensure that your body is found.

But there are other emergencies that could occur in calmer waters that could still sink your boat. For instance, you could hit a whale. It's rare, but it happens. In that case, you get into your life raft, you have your EPIRB. It's traumatic. People may well have been injured. But you survive.

It's not just sailing. People die skiing. One of the Kennedy clan, Sonny Bono. They didn't *mean* to hit trees, but they knew their aggressive skiing represented taking a risk. People die all the time while mountain climbing, scuba diving -- humans seem to like taking risks.
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Old 19-04-2013, 08:39   #162
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck sometimes it is a duck - and they can be spotted even from an Armchair .

As I said before, not 2nd guessing the Skipper's decision to abandon ship - clearly he was out of his comfort zone (depth?) and as everyone lived clearly events proved that he made a right decision.

What would have happened if they had stayed onboard? No one can ever actually know - but could easily have survived (same as the boat - all 50 foot of her)............but that alone would not have got them out of their predicament (of shortly not knowing where they were / how to get safely to shore and having little by the way of accessible provisions onboard).........on the other hand could have all died , whether from falling furniture or bodies or from an attack by Pirates, UFO's or Kracken .

The really cr#p decisions were made by the Captain well before they even left the dock, and that is a learning lesson for folks which IMO should be shared - even at the price of commenting negatively on the Captain. Anyway, unless he is a complete moron (which I doubt) I am sure he has learnt that leaving the dock with a woefully unprepared boat was not prudent and given that the passage and conditions were expected to be challenging (IMO) well past the point of stupidity.

Just like with many other things in life, with boats 90% plus (pick own percentage ) of the time yer can get away with murder on being ill prepared (on boat and in skills) and often enough even in less than ideal conditions - it's just that when things go wrong (weather and / or gear or boat failure) in an environment where you can't walk home the seriousness escalates rapidly and the consequences can be death .......being prudent is an attempt to plan and think ahead to prevent the unlikely becoming a disaster.

And perhaps also worthwhile highlighting again that abandoning a boat (into a liferaft or onto another vessel) is not in itself without great risk, if the time comes the decision will likely be a judgement call rather than a slam dunk - and only will events show whether the right call was made. Of course also circumstances where their is no right call, just some sh#tty options - none of which with any guarantee (or much prospect! ) of success...........
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Old 19-04-2013, 08:55   #163
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck sometimes it is a duck - and they can be spotted even from an Armchair ." (David Old Jersey)

Not accurately.
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Old 20-04-2013, 08:23   #164
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

Reading this thread, then re-reading this thread, has been extremely entertaining. One statement haunts me about this group of men in a boat...... I'm not really comfortable stating 'this group of SAILORS'. The haunting statement is....'they were experienced sailors'......

One contributor pointed out they may have been experienced in sailing races, short trips, etc, but not ocean crossing type trips. Seems like an excellent observation, probably the only one that carries any kind of logical explanation for how this went down.

So they really weren't experienced for a crossing, and on top of that, they were silly & irresponsible, even to the point of being outright stupid, to have been caught with so many issues they were unprepared for. And outright arrogant to think they could undertake such a trip being so unprepared, and lastly, very irresponsible, since they gave no thought to the safety of the US Coast Guard personnel whom are only at danger because of their stupidity.
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Old 20-04-2013, 08:51   #165
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Re: Abandon Ship! The Rescue of the Crew of Wolfhound

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And perhaps also worthwhile highlighting again that abandoning a boat (into a liferaft or onto another vessel) is not in itself without great risk, if the time comes the decision will likely be a judgement call rather than a slam dunk - and only will events show whether the right call was made. Of course also circumstances where their is no right call, just some sh#tty options - none of which with any guarantee (or much prospect! ) of success...........
^^+1^^ This. The point of a lot of this squabbling is that people often don't realize how dangerous it is abandoning ship. During that process many are lost or seriously injured. There are endless examples of boats that were abandoned, crew were lost during the process, and then the boat turns up later afloat. So no matter how terrible it is onboard, or how battered the crew is, pushing the red button may actually be putting you in greater danger.
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