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Old 03-12-2015, 16:21   #16
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Re: 57 foot too big?

Thanks everyone. I don't want to stir up a hornets nest here. The yacht is 95 model with rebuilt engine, (130hp Ford)

Pugh 55 - Vining Marine Picton & Nelson

My wife Jo has done a few off-shore deliveries as crew (PNG to Aust, FIJI to NZ) so she's not entirely a novice but we haven't owned keelers before.
I get the need for lots of practice with manoeuvres within confined spaces, but in Southern NZ we have a bit more space on moorings than perhaps some other places. Local cruising is primarily deep water at home, and this yacht has previously been used for charters to the Auckland Islands at high latitude so that inspires confidence in her ability.
I'd sooner buy big and keep her than have to trade and re-buy another yacht.
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Old 03-12-2015, 16:24   #17
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Re: 57 foot too big?

Maybe a better question would not be "too much for a couple to handle?" but "too much for this couple to handle?

If you have to ask the question, then the answer to the second form is likely to be No.
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Old 03-12-2015, 16:32   #18
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Re: 57 foot too big?

57' isn't too big for some people, even newbies. Larger is often more comfortable and, more importantly, less tiring. Your kids are old enough to be good crew. In the end, only you know yourself, your wife and your kids. Your call.
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Old 03-12-2015, 16:46   #19
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Re: 57 foot too big?

Thanks everyone. we're not silly enough to think that we'd be able to handle it straight away without some guidance from previous owner and maybe some coaching.
Our kids are pretty practical too, both can sail, both can drive (on the farm) and both can handle machinery (under guidance) so we expect them to be able to assist to some degree soon enough.
I guess our initial thought was, will this vessel be too big to be practical in a cruising situation? And we take on board that others are sailing this size vessel in similar circumstances (from posts here) so that settles our thinking somewhat.
We appreciate every comment here though, it's great to tap into new perspectives so thanks for that.
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Old 03-12-2015, 17:10   #20
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Re: 57 foot too big?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Ah...yes...boat built in the 80's are nightmares...
I think you missed a word in my post:


Some


I need to repeat that or is tonight's reading lesson over?

BTW google image search the designers boats...
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Old 03-12-2015, 17:25   #21
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Re: 57 foot too big?

NZMal,

The boat is made of steel which rusts in extremely inconvenient places.

If we were talking about a fibreglass, modern boat like Zanshin was saying then I would say YES! But I have heard too many horror stories about steel boats.
Basically that's why its so cheap.
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Old 03-12-2015, 17:29   #22
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Re: 57 foot too big?

It is hard to tell anything from LOA alone. 57 is quite some and schooners tend to be pretty man-hungry.

The biggest boat I can comfortably manage with my (very fit but not very strong) partner is an Amel (about 55, ketch).

As your experience grows, your skills grow and you can handle more. BUT we all get only older, never younger, stronger nor fitter. Buy today what you will be able to handle tomorrow.

Any pictures of your potential boat, perhaps?

b.
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Old 03-12-2015, 17:40   #23
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Re: 57 foot too big?

The key deciding factor is a very detailed inspection, especially on the interior at the extremities or any place where water may have collected.

There are good and badly built Steel boats as there are fiberglass boats, so don't generalise, but inspect thoroughly!

My own 65ft steel with bow thruster is easily handled by 2

Built in Holland in 1982 of Corten steel, the inside shell is like new with no rust issues.

The bottom line is your family can learn to handle a boat that size, but make sure you find one built and maintained well!
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Old 03-12-2015, 17:51   #24
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Re: 57 foot too big?

We are 1984 Camper & Nicholson 58 ketch; 35 tons, 80 feet mast space. We retire to live aboard in the spring. My wife & I are both in our 60's. We two-hand it all the time.
Great comfort. Mass and waterline flatten out the rough stuff & give great speed.
With care & planning, we do not need to change any of our primary sails ever. 135 genoa, 2/3 fractional cutter staysail, main, mizzen.
We have also light air sails; spinnaker, code zero, mizzen staysail. These are easy to handle in light air and easily double performance of a heavy boat.
Sails are expensive & heavy. You must have roller furling. We are electric in-mast main, in mast manual mizzen. We have electric primaries and a portable powered winch drive (Milwaukee)
Tall mast may keep you out of some places. We cannot transit the ICW.
There are old boat woes but aggressive restoration in the first three years has handled most of this. Electronics were beyond obsolete but the last lightening strike took care of that. We peeled and re-finished the bottom.
Dock space charged per foot adds up. We stay out when we can.
We get 4 km/gallon with no wind assistance.
Did I mention FAST? 12 to 18 knots wind on close reach yields 10 to 11 knots boat speed.
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Old 03-12-2015, 18:00   #25
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Re: 57 foot too big?

The original question was "Is 57' too big?". The other question is "Is this the right 57'er?" with a potentially different answer. Questions about buying a steel boat probably deserve another thread.

One thing though, I've owned and worked a steel boat for the last 13 years. I really like it, but I can tell you that when you bang your head against a steel boat, you'll discover that it's not nearly as soft as wood or fiberglass
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Old 03-12-2015, 20:09   #26
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Re: 57 foot too big?

Thanks for the anticipated concerns around steel boats. Of course we'll get a fresh survey including ultrasound of hull, but we know the history of this boat and we're confident that it's not a horror story in the waiting.
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Old 03-12-2015, 20:11   #27
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Re: 57 foot too big?

Another thing to consider: the pugh designs with which I am familiar are quite heavy displacement for their length and have lots of wetted area. This means that it takes lots of sail area to drive them, and this means big loads on sheets, heavy sails to lug around at times, and generally lots of hard work. The schooner design doesn't particularly help, unless it is a stays'l schooner or some such "easier" plan to deal with, and even then the main on such a boat will be bloody big.

Comparing this with a modern 57 foot vessel ?? I suspect that it would be a lot easier to sail say a Bene 57 or such than the Pugh... lots easier! But it is certainly possible that the Pugh would be more comfy in a big seaway...

IMO, ease of sailing tends to scale to displacement more than length... YMMV.

Cheers,

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Old 03-12-2015, 21:04   #28
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Re: 57 foot too big?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nzmal View Post
Thanks everyone. I don't want to stir up a hornets nest here. The yacht is 95 model with rebuilt engine, (130hp Ford)

Pugh 55 - Vining Marine Picton & Nelson

My wife Jo has done a few off-shore deliveries as crew (PNG to Aust, FIJI to NZ) so she's not entirely a novice but we haven't owned keelers before.
I get the need for lots of practice with manoeuvres within confined spaces, but in Southern NZ we have a bit more space on moorings than perhaps some other places. Local cruising is primarily deep water at home, and this yacht has previously been used for charters to the Auckland Islands at high latitude so that inspires confidence in her ability.
I'd sooner buy big and keep her than have to trade and re-buy another yacht.
I see that it is steel...I have built 3 of them. 2 for myself. Be aware that the upkeep is much higher than a F/G boat and some Marina's can be electrically hot doing a lot of damage in a short period of time.
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Old 03-12-2015, 21:09   #29
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Re: 57 foot too big?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
It is hard to tell anything from LOA alone. 57 is quite some and schooners tend to be pretty man-hungry.


b.
So don't marry a schooner?
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Old 03-12-2015, 21:20   #30
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Re: 57 foot too big?

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ok Paul.... I'm ready to listen. What are the key points that we're overlooking here?
1) You say you're inexperienced.

2) You have crew of four. This is good; your children will become only stronger and more experienced over the next few years.

3) In my opinion it is a mistake to rely on complex "systems" (how I hate that word) to handle an excessively large yacht.

4). You should imagine yourself in a full gale, it's 0200 brs., very cold, your wife is incapacitated by seasickness and your main sail furling gear is jammed. Can't get it in; can't roll it out. The wind is rising as the weather deteriorates. What are you going to do?

I am an old guy, a dinghy sailor, and, as many here might say accusingly, an armchair sailor, but I strongly believe in in boats sized to their crews and their crew's ability. Just because Eric Tabarly could handle a large boat in difficult conditions doesn't mean we all can. Lin Pardy wrote more than once about the importance of a weaker wife being able to handle all aspects of the boat in the event the stronger skipper was incapacitated in the event of injury, illness, or death.

In my opinion, a 35-40 foot boat simply and strongly rigged and fitted out will serve you and your family well.

Paul
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