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Old 06-05-2018, 22:07   #16
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

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The link was not working for me, so I had to manually search for the story. GUYS: PLEASE DO NOT POST LINKS BECAUSE THEY ALL GO DEAD EVENTUALLY.
Links working just fine, you need to sort your settings......

Also ignore the highlighted above, while eventually some links will die most from news sites stay for years.....
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Old 06-05-2018, 23:27   #17
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

jsc7, thank you for posting that.

ScottyKiwi: yes, if you REALLY want it to save you, your chances are better if it's a tad small; it is just more uncomfortable, that's all.

Franziska is right, the size was reasonable for that boat, had it had full crew. But it didn't. A trip like that is one time to consider renting the right sized raft and shipping it back after arrival, if you're taking on crew who might depend on it.

Ann
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Old 07-05-2018, 00:25   #18
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

Modern life rafts have water traps that descend under the raft and catch large volumes of water that can get out but only slowly, reducing the chance of sudden overturning.

I'm not saying they can't flip, just that they are much better than they were.

Still we were advised in training that care should be taken not to oversize them because they are more likely to flip if light.

They are very uncomfortable and we had 6 in an 8 man raft. It was not possible to keep the water out. In rough weather it must be pretty miserable.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:40   #19
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

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Also ignore the highlighted above, while eventually some links will die most from news sites stay for years.....
Not to mention that reprinting the entire article is actually a copyright violation.
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Old 07-05-2018, 11:16   #20
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pirate Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

Makes my investment in this seem well worth the cost even if I never have to use it.
Especially when one considers the small amount of water supplied in liferafts.
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Old 07-05-2018, 13:38   #21
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

Tony Bullimore had a hand operated RO unit, too, hearing him working it was how the Australian Navy found him way down in the Southern Ocean.

Ann
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Old 07-05-2018, 13:41   #22
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

We had hand operating ones in our survival gear.
I’d want one if I were suffering from lack of water of course, but by the time you will be rescued, you will have some serious hand strength.
I have two 5 gl jugs of water, I plan on throwing them into the water and tying them to the raft or whatever. Being full of fresh water I believe they float.
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Old 07-05-2018, 14:14   #23
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

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We had hand operating ones in our survival gear.
I’d want one if I were suffering from lack of water of course, but by the time you will be rescued, you will have some serious hand strength.
I have two 5 gl jugs of water, I plan on throwing them into the water and tying them to the raft or whatever. Being full of fresh water I believe they float.
Trial it first by tying 2 together in rough seas.
See if the handles pull off.
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Old 07-05-2018, 16:50   #24
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5 days in the liferaft.

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Trial it first by tying 2 together in rough seas.

See if the handles pull off.


I guess I ought to, never thought they might, but they just might.
These are the Sceptre Military ones, they are pretty strong.
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Old 07-05-2018, 17:05   #25
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

You can put them in netting. Use strong fishnet, and sew strops all the way around. I'd use tubular nylon for the handles, can insert line into them if you want them comfortable. The kind of handles that are most likely to come off are the ones with little s/s rings to attach them to the polythene.

Yes, fresh water jugs will float in salt water.

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Old 07-05-2018, 17:14   #26
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

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jsc7, thank you for posting that.

ScottyKiwi: yes, if you REALLY want it to save you, your chances are better if it's a tad small; it is just more uncomfortable, that's all.

Franziska is right, the size was reasonable for that boat, had it had full crew. But it didn't. A trip like that is one time to consider renting the right sized raft and shipping it back after arrival, if you're taking on crew who might depend on it.

Ann
So when often short handed two four person rafts is better than one eight person raft. Vessel can be in survey for eight pax. Might improve ease of launch too. Can practice in one just before its re-survey. But this subject to cost. Also would check the tie off points for ability and tethering them together. Read many stories where the lines pull off eventually, the other folk disappear in the night, separate rafts will separate. Tie off points and methods should be integral in the structure of the raft, not add-ons. Strong line non chaff with stretch and ability to weight it the middle.
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Old 08-05-2018, 12:16   #27
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

This is the Sceptre can
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...hoCBWUQAvD_BwE
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Old 08-05-2018, 15:52   #28
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

@A64pilot: I would think that handle would hold up, the ones on our Coleman collapsible jugs, no so much. Your little yellow venting cap is vulnerable. However, if they're kept below, or inside dark colored Sunbrella covers, the plastic holds up well when UV protected.

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Old 08-05-2018, 17:38   #29
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

Tragedies like this are often a series of unlucky assumptions and fatigue that compound towards a loss of life

I remember that Storm as I was advising a 60m Superyacht in Subic on weather timing for captain's first trip to Palau via Hinatuan Pass (by Dingat Island).

They must have passed within 50 miles of raft.

Because the path and speed of that storm was quite irregular and the forecasts were so far off, the sailors must have believed, it would be well past them when they departed Davao.

In fact, i recomended that the Superyacht head south and wait at Typhoon anchorage south of predicted track because of the stalling of the Storm and the fixed schedule of arriving guests in Palau.

Unfortunately, the sailors didn't have that option of a Safe Haven when they left Davao and made a reasonable assumption and commitment that this late in the Typhoon Season...the storm would pass well ahead of them, giving them a nice lift and settled weather towards Subic, in its aftermath.

3 elderly guys making a long passage was probably quite fatiguing and as major leaks drained their energies, continual monitoring and solving of the problems was not happening.

I think in hindsight, a 3 person crew on a tough windward trip north to the Philippines would almost guarantee an overwhelming fatigue when the weather turned nasty and serious leaks developed.

Lessons?
We all assume we can manage accumulating problems as we did in our younger years, but age and experience should remind you to be more conservative by bringing on additional help if the passage is challenging.
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Old 08-05-2018, 18:11   #30
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Re: 5 days in the liferaft.

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Fwiw, I have a few thoughts about this:

1) Very lucky to have survived, I'm sure his optimistic attitude helped. Good on him.

2) They went to sea in a boat with good bones, but inadequately maintained. Maybe someone would like to write a checklist of stuff for crew to check before going to sea on a boat, and publish it here, in this thread.

3) Rescue services: well, there are times when they should not leave shore where they are safe, and an active typhoon is one of them. Poorer countries will obviously have less services than wealthier ones. Expecting rescue is a little dicey, imo, because it always takes time. In this case, i expect the Philippine Navy were busy taking care of their own citizenry: they were engaged with a natural disaster for their own people.
And, although awkward for the yachties involved, it seems a correct priority to me. If you sail in poorer areas, or extremely isolated ones, you are less likely to be rescued, and such rescues are likely to be more difficult to effect.

4) They got into an 8 man liferaft. Lord only knows how old it was, but it was too big: being oversized for the number of crew contributed to the rolling over. Liferafts are designed to be crowded, the people's weight is part of the calculated ballast for their stability. It is tempting to buy one with more space, but in survival conditions, even more dangerous. Luckily, it did save one of the 4 men.

Ann
Something to be said for "provisions" - like drinking water for starters - that can't "get lost" if your raft does overturn.
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