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Old 21-05-2010, 20:09   #1
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What Multihull ?

Morning/afternoon/evening

New to the forum although following for some time.

I'm about to launch into semi retirement and now have the time to get back to the water after years of absence.

I've been trawling a number of threads on what to buy. The scratch on my head is getting deeper but I believe a Lagoon 44 will satisfy my needs. Room to spread out, half decent performance, creature comforts are key.

At 55 years of age, racing and stretching my abilities don't factor so I'm looking to live aboard for extended periods and explore Asia Pacific tropics and perhaps even the med.

Would appreciate comments on my logic before I spend real dollars/Euro's
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Old 21-05-2010, 22:37   #2
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Med Marina's are dear, consider how you can anchor off and get ashore reasonably and add that to your 'must have' list. Brand new comes with more problems than five yr old. Take a good look at modern used boats too, especially in the locations you want to cruise, there are many on the Med. They depreciate slower in the first five years of ownership. Boat sorted you'll still need the same amount of money again to live reasonably well and a inflation proof sum for a retirement home at the end of your life at sea. A smaller boat and a shore base (abroad) might be a much easier option allowing months at sea radiating from the right spot on the globe. Winter rentals of property in Spain etc can be really cheap while you fettle or refit and live aboard for summer cruising.
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Old 21-05-2010, 23:13   #3
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Appreciate your input eleven. Hopefully you're not suggesting I'll need similar money to maintain life at sea? I'm forecasting a spend of 5% p.a. as a yardstick. This amounts to maybe 12-15k.
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Old 21-05-2010, 23:36   #4
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That's a tight budget I suggest, hence my comment on older boats/better value.
There's a thread running on low budget cruising at the moment.
Cruising on $500 per Month....
Also:-
Sinking Cats
where the Lagoon doesn't rate as 'unsinkable' but I'd check with Lagoon on that.

And for background you might also try the following threads:-
Corsair 37 or Dragonfly 35: Which Is Better for Blue Water Passage Making ?
Privilege 42 /435
Leopard 38 Near Sydney ?
Just paste each line into the search box and it should come up with some interesting reading for you but only on Cats, the family cruising life. There'll be a mono man along shortly with his twist.
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Old 21-05-2010, 23:53   #5
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That was 12-15k euros per annum so 1,000 per month. Did not expect that to include incidental rigging, engine out of ordinary running costs. Is this still light?
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Old 22-05-2010, 00:07   #6
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A combination of bank statements and grocery receipts should give you a fair idea what you 'live aboard' costs will be. Boat costs, with luck, should be limited to:
Anti-fouling
Sail Replacement
Standing Rigging replacement
Anti-fouling is expensive (10/litre - search google for coverage rates) and expensive to have done. Lift out and back in is a few hundred unless you beach your cat and do it yourself (Med is getting fussy about this - anti-fouling is not environmentally friendly).
Sail replacement - allow a couple of thousand every seven years.
Standing rigging - I'd guess about the same every fifteen years for the wires and a fitter.
Depreciation on the boat increases where these are neglected. Electronics are another money dissolver. Hand held are cheaper to buy and to replace.
Insurance - about 400 a year, more for the first year. Includes protection for your crew but it's not a medical insurance or a fly home insurance. It all adds up alarmingly.
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Old 22-05-2010, 00:26   #7
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I'm guestimating that cruising insurance on a Lagoon 440 will run you around $6 - $7K USD per year, depending on your experience and cruising grounds. You might want to contact Susan Ratrie (TabbyCat on CF) at IMIS for a quote.

Lagoon 440's are comfortable, spacious cruisers with pretty good performance. Personally, I like them a lot except for two things -- that flybridge helm and the resulting high boom. The helm is quite exposed and means that you're feeling a lot of motion in high seas (a delivery skipper-friend calls them "riding the camel"). The high boom means that the engineering is out at the bleeding edge and is on the light side -- I've seen/heard of several that have been broken from being over-canvassed or accidental gybes.

Nonetheless, there are lots of happy 440 owners out there.

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Old 22-05-2010, 00:52   #8
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Thanks Intent on Drifting... I'll contact Susan. I have been reading about isolated helm and rigging height. Also conscious of risk associated with a lusty gybe. I had thought of backing off to a 420 but consensus seems to be they are a bit sluggish in comparison. Any other considerations around 300k?
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Old 22-05-2010, 06:09   #9
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have you tried going on New and Used Yachts for Sale - YachtWorld.com and searching for catamarans in your price range? Lots of good boats out there.
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Old 22-05-2010, 08:53   #10
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Jamie, here's my experience on a 43 foot cat built in 1995.I have had it for two years almost now Generally I budget around 8 to 10% of what I brought the boat for towards maintaining it in the same state as you brought it in and for general upgrades etc plus 2-4 % on insurance ( i second the excellent comments on Susan for insurance )

Basically a 200k boat ( put aside 40 - 50k to get it where it needs to be for the trip, especially if your boat came out of charter and has not gone long distance before...you laugh but if you spend 300k on a charter boat and dont spend 30 or 40 putting it where you want it or where it needs to be i'll be amazed)....20k min per year to maintain and keep it going...This is about what I have been spending on mine since I had it...less if you do all the work yourself and this is getting less and less as I deal and improve the systems.... plus 2% insurance = $4500 usd = $24,000k usd per year for a 200k boat. The more complex the boat the higher the maintenance. 300 ooo boat $30,000 maint a year worst case, 6000 insurance = $36000 usd before expenses food gas etc.

Thats before any gas or food or general entertainment..etc...... I estimate that for me on my 250 k 43 foot cat I need $3000 usd average a month worse case scenario. Some months are really cheap but others...well they suck. Bigger the cat more money you need......more complex the boat more money you need.......more time you spend fixing it. I'm not a big fan of the lagoon 44 for cruising long distance.....iAnother point for me really fancy interior is a downside for blue water long distance in my opinion.....always worrying about wet gear on the fancy sofa, sand...tools dropped on the floor etc. Again just my opinion......I have friends that spend that budget sailing around on 30 foot monohulls living cheaply. Whatever you plan on spending just use the damn it and double it rule...it will cost twice what you planned and take twice as long as you think it would to fix. Aim smaller and more basic than you think you need now ( ie a lagoon 44 is not a cheap boat to buy, maintain nor insure...) Look around 175 - 200 and spend the rest getting the boat ready and fattening up your monthly budget. Just my opinion but a lagoon 44 is not a prime choice nor anything your budget would enjoy supporting.
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Old 22-05-2010, 22:29   #11
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Appreciate your candour 221. I am also thinking of the 42 and 40 lagoon. Has lower dollar cost and seems to provide similar comfort.

I am torn between liveability and reducing the 'frills'. I will up my monthly budget and work from there. I do not intend to buy a charter boat. Essentially looking for a recent model (ie 2005+) that has had the showroom 'shock' but not necessarily the wear and tear of an older boat.
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Old 17-06-2010, 12:37   #12
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Aloha and welcome aboard!
I hope you'll get an idea of costs from other forum members. My boat is in my yard so I can't help with that.
regards,
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Old 17-06-2010, 12:59   #13
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JamieL -- I suggest that you not be too quick to disregard the notion of an older boat. New boat salesman will argue otherwise, but there have been many truly excellent designs over the years. Just a few for example: The Lagoon 42 (the USA-built TPI version, not the new 420) is a very good sail and was quite well made. They have an almost cult following. Same with the Fountaine Pajot Venezia 42. A number of the Prout designs have proven themselves time and again as tough, reliable cruisers, though their performance is somewhat more limited (depends on the model). My boat, the St Francis 44, was very well built, has a spacious design and is high performance, too. Almost half of them built have circumnavigated. Catalacs are quite affordable, highly regarded, and also have achieved a status as being great liveaboard cruisers. The Privilege 39/42 range are highly regarded, quite spacious and excellent off-shore boats.

All of these boats were well made and have proven designs. They will be considerably less to buy than a recent 440 and probably less to maintain, too. (Frankly, in my opinion they are also better built, too.) Depending on the boat, you might (or might not) have to do some (or a lot) of refitting -- but you'll still have much more in the cruising kitty. The views are the same from all of them.

Just saying, something to think about.

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