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Old 08-05-2008, 12:29   #31
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Originally Posted by alambertfl View Post
One question. The triple keels, obviously designed for significant tide swings, are unfamiliar to me. Your thoughts, both pro and con would be appreciated.
Sonny L
Triple Keels?

Yer know how Trimarans have 3 hulls / Keels and can reach speeds above 20 knots? Well, Triple keels don't work like that

As you say, designed for tide swings. In Jersey the tidal range is from around 26 foot (very small) up to a touch over 40 foot (very large) - so effectively most of our harbours were built on dry land, at least for twice a day

Essentially I chose a Triple Keeler because I did not want to have any Marina Bills! (as well as just not liking them)...so needed the boat to be able to dry out......did not want Legs (done that ) or Bilge Keels and a suitable Lifting Keeler was outside my price range (OVNI = $$$ YIKES!!).

Triple Keels - These are essentially a boat with a "normal" keel on which the boat fully rests when dried out......however their is also a smaller Keel each side of the main keel whose purpose is to stop the boat falling over! They are a couple of inches shorter than the main keel so the vessel uses them as a crutch and not as a main load bearer and leans over slightly when aground (depending on sea bed this is not really noticeable on a Seadog).

The pros are that you can have a "proper" keel for sailing performance / seakeeping (unlike a bilge Keeler) which is also stronger than a Bilge Keeler (one big main Keel takes the weight / most of any pounding when drying / floating on any mooring or Anchor).

In practice a Triple Keel is only put on boats up to a modest draft no 6 foot deep keels!! - in the case of a Seadog this being 3' 6" about the max I have seen / heard of. In any event, over here I would not want to go above that draft for access to the mooring time. Makes nudging into a mooring less stressful if yer do not have to worry about having pushed the tide too much and run aground - yer boat is not going to fall over! I can't recall having seen a triple keel on any boat over 35 foot. Probably to do with draft.

The Cons? Well, it is performance related! This is both because simply adding 2 extra keels is going to affect the performance of any boat (their is a reason why racers do not have them!) - but also triple keels were put on boats that were more family cruisers with everything else about the designs (hull shape / rig / keel depth) also not out and out performance orientated.

In practice Triple Keels have gone out of fashion both because of the increase in Marinas reducing the demand from most people and the advance in Lifting Keel technology and boat design (ie OVNI) for those who want (but probably do not need) to dry out.

You may not know that their are TWO versions of the Seadog, the Triple Keel Version like mine (and the majority) and the Deep Seadog which has a single keel with a draft increased by an extra foot to 4' 6" and with a taller rig. Everything else is basically the same. Unsurprisingly she sails better (so I am told).

I did think long and hard about which version to buy - if I had been 100% intending on a long term voyage at the time of purchase within a reasonable time scale I would have gone for the Deep Seadog simply because I would not need to always dry out. It would be handy now and again, but not essential. And my thinking that a bit more keel and bit more sail wouldn't do any harm.

However, if / when I do sail off into the WBY forever I will NOT sell "Wayluya" Seadog - 3 Keels and all ......simply because she is more than good enuf to do everything that a Deep Seadog can do - indeed if I ever get around to adding a folding prop, some fully battened sails, maybe a bowsprit and also learn how to sail a bit better then I suspect that she will sail as well as her Deep Seadog sister originally did and just as good a seaboat. I am sure that somewhere in the world that I would be glad that she can take the ground (whether intentionally or not!) - especially for antifouling / repairs and even ashore she will be less of a worry than a single keeler on props. Another big pro on the Seadog is that the extra keels are the Watertanks - frees up a lot of room inside, everything helps on a 30 footer!....indeed for this reason alone I may now have chosen her over her deeper keeled sistership.

Of course not to say that all triple keelers are the same as a Seadog - some better / some worse on the sailing front.

Another way long post to say something simple - if yer do not have to worry about tides I would not bother with a Triple Keel, but depending on the boat I would not rule them straight out. If my Seadog didn't have the extra keels she would still be the same seaworthy boat.


But the Caveat to the above is that I have a LOT more seamiles to put under her keel before I can claim expert status
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Old 08-05-2008, 13:55   #32
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mermaidserena-- Sorry to read of your stay in the hospital.
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Old 08-05-2008, 23:26   #33
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Hummmn, if this thread is still about St. Aug--I love it!!! We don't even mind the 5-6 hr drive. It is the perfect spot for refitting a boat (as we are) and a great place to unwind! From our spot we get to look at the old downtown, see fireworks, protected from weather, see dolphins and manatees--need I go On?

We are at the Hidden Harbor Marina and couldn't ask for a better deal (on the coast) or nicer folks. We have the most fun at Hurrican Patty's on Saturday nites, good food and awesome group singing--think it's Oyster Bay Marina very close to us.
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Old 09-05-2008, 14:07   #34
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Hurricane Patty's is a neat place. Rustic and good oyster stew. I love the atmosphere. Have to stay sober when I visit. I have not found hidden harbor yet. It must be hidden.

John
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Old 12-05-2008, 07:38   #35
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We're not so hidden, you can see it from the King street bridge. Do you know Theo's? Turn into the next drive (Posey St) and follow it down to the Marina.

Never tried the oyster stew,thanks for the tip, never had a bad meal there for sure. We also like "Flavors" (big meals can be split for 2) and "The Shiny Diner".

Where are you docked Scally?
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Old 12-05-2008, 14:06   #36
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Janny,

Yes, I know where it is. My wife keeps telling me I have Alhz. I guerss I do. I remeber it as BBC. It was Bob Bonner Construction with a wood shop and a couple of docks. The current owners have made it look nice. The cost of dockage is something else. I am docked behind my home just north of the 206 bridge near Crescent Beach. Really I am closer to Butler Park. I am still doing a rebuild of my companionway hatch. Hopefully it will be done before the 4th of July. I can not wait to work on it fulltime. It seems the harder I work the more jobs are to be done.

John
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Old 12-05-2008, 15:23   #37
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I'm here in St. Augustine now, leaving tomorrow for points further north.
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Old 12-05-2008, 16:43   #38
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Welcome to St. Augustine Rick I. Across the street from the City Marina is A1A Ale Works. There are other eateries in the area. There is a pizza place on St. George Street walking North. Enjoy your stay. May your trip north be uneventful.
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Old 22-05-2008, 03:16   #39
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According to the Salty Southeast Cruisers' Net, the Bridge of Lions (St. Augustine, FL, Statute Mile 778) AND the adjacent section of the ICW will be closed periodically during late May, early June, 2008.
For this and MORE important information Goto
“BREAKING NEWS IN EASTERN FLORIDA”:
Cruisers' Net - Home
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Old 17-02-2009, 02:30   #40
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Day Sail in St. Augustine's

I'm going to be in central Florida this week-end Feb. 20-25. Do you know anyone who needs an extra deck hand for a daysail? I'll winch, cook, clean, haul, buy food and fuel, steer . . . anything but freeload! Thanks
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Old 17-02-2009, 18:40   #41
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Yes I do know of someone Wan
Contact me directly and I will hook you up!
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Old 17-02-2009, 19:38   #42
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I am in the anchorage south of the Bridge of Lions. It's a great spot.

Most of what everybody has said so far I agree with. I don't dislike the Conch House, though. A bit pricey, but dockage is free if you come in for dinner, the view is very nice, there's usually live music outside on weekends, and I love sitting in the elevated huts over the water. Also, as for food quality, I've never been dissatisfied. But I usually order the same thing -- the seafood salad and several margaritas.

Hurricane Patty's is definitely more my kind of place, though. Very laid back and sailor friendly. Great bloody marys.

Hidden Harbor Marina is on Prawn Street, just before you reach Theo's when heading west on King St.

St. Augustine is a wonderful place to live, among several reasons because it's one of the few coastal places in Florida that hasn't been ruined by overdevelopment. Still has the "Old Florida" charm and a European feel to it.
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Old 18-02-2009, 18:34   #43
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Folks,

Have any of you visited the Camachee Cove marina? I would like to move my boat from Amelia Isl to St Augustine this Fall. Is the marina depth alright for a 6' draft?

With my work, I am traveling about two weeks/month and would like to keep Layla at a marina that's relatively quiet and protected yet easy to sail out of.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Fair winds to all....

Sailndive
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Old 18-02-2009, 20:33   #44
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I have a friend who keeps his C&C 115 there, and there are times that he can't get in or out at low tide. But the C&C draws 6'8", I believe. So, maybe 6' would not have that same problem.

Camachee Cove Marina is a really nice facility, though, and quite convenient -- both protected and close to the Inlet.
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Old 18-02-2009, 20:47   #45
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I have a friend who keeps his C&C 115 there, and there are times that he can't get in or out at low tide. But the C&C draws 6'8", I believe. So, maybe 6' would not have that same problem.

Camachee Cove Marina is a really nice facility, though, and quite convenient -- both protected and close to the Inlet.

Thank you so much for the info, Oceansoul. I tried to get the info on another thread but had struck out.

I am currently at Amelia Isl Yacht Basin - I think it is a very nice marina but anywhere near low tide, I am trapped My lease will expire in Oct, I'll come by St Augustine visit the marina when I am in the area late Feb. Perhaps I'll run into you on the water sometime...

Cheers!

Sailndive
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