PNW - Skookum 53 Re-Fit

[captain58sailin]

Repower update, things are moving slowly, I sent my 506 twin disc out to Everett, WA and had the housing changed to a SAE 3 so that it would fit the Isuzu engine, the guy I hired to pull out the old 471 hasn't done much work while I was gone to Africa, so it looks like I am on the hook for the whole job. It is not easy due to my work schedule which is 2 months on 1 month off. I just got back Saturday, and I have yet to get down to the boat to see what state my refit is in, I am betting not much got done, salmon season got in the way. Anyway I'll do the work myself and be happy with the workmanship if not the speed.

[Jock]

Hi BillR,
Good to see you guys are back at it. I don't have enough time to update on our project right now but just thought to let you know that we can source just about any Gardner part here in Thailand for much less that they normally cost in the UK or Australia.
Jock

[billr]

Hi Brad, Hi Jock,
I seem to be going through a lot of PAL penetrating oil this summer.
We finally got the Barient 28 winches off the bases. The aluminum bases had been mounted with galvanized bolts. When the zinc on the bolts was used up, much of the base material (likely a 5000 series of aluminum alloy) was consumed in galvanic corrosion. If I can get the winches un-frozen (they are sitting in a bucket of diesel right now), then I'll make some new bases.
I'm slowly getting part of the Gardner's cooling system apart. Lots of PAL, heat gun, impact, and patience. More corrosion, though not too bad. The biggest problem is poor access to bolt heads. In some areas there is not enough clearance to get a socket on the head, so you are stuck with only using an open-end wrench. Also, the heads on some of the Whitworth dimensioned bolts have sloppy tolerances. Not good if the bolt is stuck. I am having to make some custom open-ended wrenches for 5/16 Whitworth, which consists of carefully grinding a 13mm wrench with a Dremel tool to fit some particular bolts. Gardner's have a lot of enthusiastic owners, so I am rather surprised to run into this type of problem. This engine was bought in 1979. I think some of the short hoses used in the cooling system are original. Many are quite thick, with 2 and 3 layers of fiber re-inforcement. The rubber (maybe neopreme) inside is shot, but what surprised me is the the re-inforcement fibers appear to be cotton. I kind of wondered if they were using military surplus from WW2.
Jock, the biggest problem I am running into right now are tools for Whitworth / British Standard Fine. Most are made these days in India or Germany. There are 2 places in the US that carry some for automotive and motorcycles, but there is not much to choose from. There seem to be more companies building parts for Gardners than tools.
I was removing some cross-shelving between the forward and aft bulkheads on the lazarrete. Some were installed by the original owner with square drive plated screws. They were corroded. Surprisingly, every screw either stripped the head or snapped the screw in half. I recently ordered some 304 stainless screws from McFeely's in Wisconsin. They are on the internet. If you want square drive screws (which are just about impossible to strip, in stainless), they have about every size you can imagine.

Bill

[Jock]

Hi Bill, I have had similar issues with sockets and wrenches when I worked on a boat with a Gardner 8 lxb. Luckily the owner of the boat had collected just about every Whitworth and BS tool ever made. I have one set of Whiworths onboard Crescent and a large combination of metric, imperial and BS tools. There still are some companies in China and Thailand manufacturing Whitworth tools. I will have to check on this as it was secondhand information. Both these countries used to have thousands of Gardner engines either in fishing boats or in busses. I was in China a couple of years ago and was very surprised when I walked into a workshop in a fishing town and all the guy had was 6 and 8 cylinder Gardner engines. The 6 LXB in Crescent is still basically brand new. Completely rebuilt top to bottom, front to back. The only time I have worked on it was when I marinised the engine. Instead of the original oil coolers I fitted British made Bowden coolers. I also went slightly oversized on the main heat exchanger as I cool the exhaust manifold with the fresh water side of the cooling. We do get up to a good operating temperature (78 C) but I think that I did a bit of overkill by fitting a 2" raw water cooling pump. Not all of the raw water goes into the injection elbow as I have split the outlet to supply a constant running deck wash.
We have resigned from our current job and will be working on Crescent full time for the next 4 months or so. Leanne should then also have some time to update our website (S/Y Crescent :: Come sail with us!). It is months behind as we are now floating. Still have the whole interior to build plus lost of work on the rig. Not to mention starting the wiring and plumbing from scratch. HELP!!! Looking forward to having a boat that can actually go places. We are now in year 5 of the rebuild. We will try and do a bit of cruising next year even if she is not complete.
Jock

[billr]

Hi Jock,
We are closing up the boat this week, getting ready to go back to Arizona to the real jobs. Sounds like you are starting to make real progress.
A few comments on our 6xlb installation. It uses a Walter keel cooler with four 8 ft tubes. The only pump that is used is the Gardner pump on the engine.
Also, in relation to tools. I found that if a 5/16 Whitworth hex bolt (or nut) has no rust and no paint, a 13mm wrench can be "tapped" on for a very snug fit.
Although the aluminum cooling plumbing castings in the 6lxb have thick walls, I have had some substantial pitting where the old hoses were leaking. I ground out the pits with a burr in the dremel, alodyned the pits, and then used a metalized epoxy (JB Weld) to to fill the pits. That seems to work pretty well. My chemical company friend made some pretty strong arguments that fixing pits in aluminum really requires getting rid of the corrosion and then alodyning before using any epoxy fill.

Bill

[billr]

Jock,
One more update. The square drive stainless wood screws that McFeely's (Wisconsin) sells are made in Thailand. The other place that makes square drive stainless screws is Roberts in Canada. Fisheries Supply in Seattle (1500 page catalog or so) sells Roberts screws.
Bill

[mv andron]

Originally Posted by billr

Jock,
The reason we haven't heard from John C. is because he passed away. I'm trying to get more details. I did a search of the internet for Seahorse, and it showed up for sale on Yachtworld. I also found that he had taken some pictures in Trinidad for an article shortly before he died. Since he was spending winters in Trinidad, he likely died about a year ago. By the way, his full name was John Camm. I went back and re-read some of the emails he had sent us. I felt a real sense of loss. As I find out more I will post it here.

Hello Billr:
I purchased the Seahorse from Penny Camm last year (2011) in Jacksonville, Florida and brought her home to Campbell River, BC, Canada via the Panama canal last winter. The Boat was formerly named "Brendan", "10 & 2", "Seahorse" and is now Canadian registered as "ANDRON". She is a wonderful sea boat and is currently about to be repainted. Feel free to stop and visit if ever stopping over at Discovery Harbour Marina in Campbell River. Cheers, Ron

[captain58sailin]

Hi Folks,
Well it is geting close to spring, I finished up my fuel system modifications a couple of hitches ago, and didn't do anything last time off, being Christmas and snowy and cold and all. My Wife says we got about 20' drifts at the house right now. Anyway when I back in, in a couple of weeks, I have got to dig in and get that engine swapped out, the guy I hired bailed on me last fall and nothing got done. I got the transmission back and it all looks good, so no more excuses, time to get down and start busting knuckles on the Jimmy, so I can pull it out. Albacore season is looming and I don't want to miss this year! I'll post some photos of what I did with the dual racors and the centrifuge.

[billr]

Hi Ron,
Wow, that is interesting that your boat has now come back to PNW. John Camm was certainly enamored with it. For a while, John, Jock, and I were trading emails with lots of pictures. Send me an email at brollins@theriver.com, and I will forward the John's old emails to you. You will find them quite interesting.
As you read in this site, your boat, mine, Jocks, and Ted Mattson's Skookumchuck had their hulls built all about 1979. Ted sold his boat last year, and it is now fishing out of Coos Bay, Oregon.
I do expect to put my boat in next summer, but not this one. I will look foward to seeing your boat in Campbell River.
Bill

[billr]

Brad,
You have a centrifuge? Tell me more. Passage Maker Magazine had a good article on those a while back.
As I recall you said you had a 509 Twin Disk. A while back, Ted Mattson mentioned that he heard that our vintage 509 had a gear that may have been 7 mils off from running true. Have you heard anything about that?
It good to hear that I am not the only one who has had his boat work clobbered by "the job". You know, that's kind of a sad commentary. I thought all us boat guys were smart enough to not let that happen.

Bill

[mv andron]

Thank you for your Response Bill:
I understand that, unfortunately John Camm suffered a heart attack in Trinidad a few years ago while his boat was being surveyed out of water. The surveyor and his daughter subsequently volunteered and safely delivered the boat to Jacksonville in spite of them weathering a storm during the 1800 NM journey. I was in Coos Bay last April for couple days waiting for fair weather. We would be delighted to learn more about this boat and any of her sister ships. I will email you as requested and my email address is: andron_explorer@hotmail.com Please send John's emails when convenient.
Thank you once again,
Ron

[captain58sailin]

Hi Bill,
I bought a Diesel craft centrifuge, and installed it up stream of the dual racor set up, I will install the magnetic block critter just before the main engine intake. I have not had a chance to run the system very long so I cannot report to the effectiveness yet, the unit setup cost about $750 for the centrifuge and the magnetic block. I'll be home come the 20th of March and will be running the gen set so I will be able to report about it by the end of the month. I may have misspoke earlier, but I have a twin disc 506, that I am bolting up to an Isuzu 6BD1 turbo, which required me to have the case swapped out from an SAE 2 to an SAE 3, plus a $450 adapter. The Suzie was equipped with a borg warner and I felt that the twin disc would be more reliable for the long run. I will gain about 20 to 40 hp and lose the oil slobbering in my bilge, and I believe the unit will provide greater fuel conservation, when the engine was in my gillnetter it would average 2 gph consumption @ 1500 rpm, plus it is quieter. I believe this is all going to be a huge PITA, to do, but I believe the end results will be worth it, both engines are the same length overall and the Isuzu has 12" narrower foot print. Being a wide glide myself, I can use the extra room in the engine compartment.

[billr]

Brad,
I mentioned your engine swap to the guy who has the Grey Pelican. He built the boat, has spent many summers in the SE, and puts the boat on the hard in the winter in the same yard in La Connor as my boat. When I mentioned you were putting in the Isuzu, he had a lot of good comments about it. He likes industrial engines.
Question: My PTO is mounted on top of the Twin disk 509, with the hydraulic pump on top of the PTO. A rather fat hose from the hydraulic tank (which is mounted on the side wall) is run to the pump, but the hose has no support. What was the set-up in the Rose? Seems like I need a hanger to support the middle of the hose. My knowledge on hydraulic plumbing practice is nil, that's why I am asking.
Bill

[captain58sailin]

Hey Bill,
With the 506, I don't have the troll valve feature on it so no pto for that, I do have a pto for the vessel hydraulics and I am going to have to take the pump in and have it converted to a magnetic clutch unit so I can have hydraulics for the gurdies. I would say that you should support the hose, on Rose the hydraulic hose for the pump on the PTO goes down to the bottom of the engine compartment and there is a glassed in fairlead that holds it in position. I'll be getting back to Alaska in a few days and I'll take some more photos of my engine compartment adn pass them on along with a photo of the Isuzu set up. I think the hard part is going to be getting the Jimmy out of the compartment. I don't want to cut the top out of the pilot house, according to the tape measure, I should be able to slide the stripped down engine out the back. I had this very same engine in my gill netter for several years, it was originally a truck/industrial engine and I love it's dependability, fuel consumption, and quiet. I think, I am going to sell my power troll permit and focus on albacore, I am hearing some very good prices per ton. I'll keep the gurdies, you never know what else a person might catch out in the wild. I'm also thinking of setting up a couple of jigging machines.

[hamfam1]

Brad (Captain58Sailing?)
I'm looking at a 53 Skookum next week in Washington that I'm considering for some "retirement" trolling. We have a place across the bay from Homer and am familiar with the Inua but not the Rose. I'm wondering if it's possible to stop by and take a quick peek the first weekend in May. We'll be down the afternoon of the 4th and returning to Anchorage the afternoon of the 6th so either one of those would work. Understand you may not have the time so it can also wait.