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Old 20-04-2011, 13:50   #16
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

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I suggest you not go too cheap on the boat. It is generally a better deal to buy one in good shape than make repairs and buy things for one.
what he said: otherwise you will find yourself fixing the boat and not having any time left for the job you get paid for
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Old 20-04-2011, 14:08   #17
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

Allied makes some very seaworthy and affordable boats in the 30' range.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=15784&url=
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Old 20-04-2011, 15:03   #18
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

There's allot of cruisers in tropical marina's who learned after retirement. Go for it. Buying an abandoned boat and rebuilding it from the top down isn't a bad idea but now you'll have to do that.
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Old 20-04-2011, 15:26   #19
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

You've got some good advice already.

I would only add that nothing wrong with a cheap boat - but you want a cheap one due to (taking advantage of ) someone else's $$$ troubles, and not because she is a pile of poop. Good deals are always "out there" the trick is finding them, when you want. IMO sniffing around marinas and boatyards is a good way to go (in addition to any internet searching).

The main thing I would caution against is over capitalising on the boat. The odds are high that you will sell within a few years, either because you decide to do something else or because you want a better boat - and based on your own first hand experiances will know what "better" means for you. Any idiot can throw 5 years and $50k into turning a $5k boat into...........a $5k boat

In your shoes I would trade solid for basic - and live with "rough and ready" cosmetic condition (making things "just so" really eats up the months / years - but for some that is part of the enjoyment ). Being a mechanical whiz takes a large chunk of potential bills away (and if you can find a boat with a kaput engine, could be a way of you getting a real bargain ).
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Old 20-04-2011, 15:58   #20
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

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Old 20-04-2011, 19:01   #21
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

So many great comments and great advice, I don't know where to begin!

Wait, yes I do. Do you have any recommendations on which books/authors to pick up? I realize that reading will only take me so far, but I want to do as much as I can while I can.
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Old 20-04-2011, 19:18   #22
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

"A Sea Vagabond" by Bernaerd Moitessier
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Old 20-04-2011, 19:18   #23
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

A great approach to finding good sailing books to read next is to look for books on the topics that you are currently interested in. Maybe you are currently excited about different types of boats, boat repair, sailing journeys, water sailing">blue water sailing, navigation, storm techniques, etc.? I often do Google searches and surf Amazon reviews to find my next books and have read books on a really wide variety of sailing topics this way,, they were all interesting and good and I keep a few ready for when I finish what I'm reading now (John Vigors The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat).

Based on your earlier questions and what you may have ahead of you I will recommend Don Casey's This Old Boat. It's a good read and even if you don't take on the project's in it the book will help you get a much broader and better understanding of all that is required to maintain/repair a boat. It's one of the books that I'd recommend that you read most of before buying a boat. For a good combination of information and entertainment the Pardey's various cruising books are great, and they will probably align with some of the goals that you have (small/simple). Royce's Sailing Illustrated is my favorite reference book and I recommend it highly. For instant gratification, if you want to read a great story that will get you excited about budget cruising in a small fiberglass boat I found James Baldwin's Across Islands and Oceans to be a great read and you can read it free online.

Atom Voyages | Voyages Aboard the Sailboat Atom - Across Islands and Oceans - A Journey Alone Around the World by Sail and by Foot - Introduction

There is a lot of good information on his site too if you haven't dug through it.

Jonathan
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Old 20-04-2011, 19:49   #24
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

Difficult to find everything you might want between two covers but Steve and Linda Dashew have come close with Practical Seamanship: Essential Skills for the Modern Sailor. Anything by the Pardey's is great and entertaining. I had forgotten about Royce's Sailing Illustrated that JohnathanSail mentioned which is also a good resource.
Sounds like you have more than enough to get you started... Good Luck! Capt Phil
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Old 20-04-2011, 19:58   #25
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

[QUOTE=drummingpariah;670253]...but I'm guessing sails, mast, and rigging add up more quickly than any other individual components.]

Actually you may find engine work to be the most expensive. Repowering can cost upwards of $10,000. The effort required to extract an old diesel will be more than you can imagine. Likewise dropping in a new motor and aligning it with the prop shaft is hard work in very confined spaces. Look closely at the engine's hour meter. Small numbers are best. Over 5,000 hours is a lot of time on a diesel. Have a sample of the engine sent to a lab. Check it for metal fragments. Oil is an engine's blood.

Rigging is not such a big deal. Rent a crane with an operator. If you are careful and keep things under control you can have the mast out and horizontal for the cost of $500 in less than 2 hours. Then go over it from heel to mast head, inch by inch. And check the mast step too. Pull it out, clean it, prime and paint it.

You can find good second hand sails at an affordable price. Check baconsails.com. They are in Annapolis and handle lots of racer's sails that still have many good years of life in them.

Check the keel bolts if it has a bolt on fin keel. Replace if rusted. You will sleep a lot better.

Large old FG boats are surprisingly affordable. You should be able to find a Morgan 41 for about $35,000. I would advise you to buy not less than a 40 footer if you plan to live aboard. A boat that size will have plenty of storage for your winter clothes in the summer and visa versa.

Stay away from wood unless you can build a floating Hepplewhite hutch. Boat carpentry is a high art. As a rule, wood goes on the interior to face you & fiberglass on the outside to face the weather.

Stay away from ferocement. It has been around for a long time. There has never been a conspiracy to hold it back. That it has not caught on is a result of marine Darwinism.

Lastly, your life is worth something and you have only so many hours if it to expend on your boat project. Buy the most - best boat you can. Otherwise you just might buy a wreck put a lot of money into it and burn out long before it goes back in the water. That is exactly why you see so many abandoned boats in the marinas around Boston.
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Old 20-04-2011, 20:00   #26
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

Sorry, that should be, "Have a sample of the engine oil sent to a lab."
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Old 21-04-2011, 04:53   #27
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

I think the biggest problem in the orginal post plan, is that it has a schedule! I think based on sailing and boat maintenance experience and the boat condition/age, being concerned about "the schedule" is going to be a source of stress.

Nothing on a boat ever gets done faster or for less money than planned!
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Old 21-04-2011, 05:51   #28
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

also,assuming you manage to get to the caribean,getting to brazil direct from there is virtually impossible,being up wind,up current.

better plan on leaving east coast would be head for the azores during the summer, then fall west coast of europe/canary is,then head south for brazil over the winter and arrive in the carib in the spring,with all your sails still intact.

hence the saying fair winds and following seas,welcome to the forum.
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Old 21-04-2011, 14:38   #29
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

My friend Webb Chiles did almost exactly that route when he left Boston - from Portugal and Gibraltar he went down to Dakar and over to Salvador in Brazil - then decided to do the south Atlantic over to Cape Town. My escape will be different - Canaries and then over to the Carribean, then through the canal .... but you know I would love to get to Salvador ...
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Old 22-04-2011, 14:45   #30
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Re: Planning to Liveaboard from Massachusetts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanSail View Post
A great approach to finding good sailing books to read next is to look for books on the topics that you are currently interested in. Maybe you are currently excited about different types of boats, boat repair, sailing journeys, blue water sailing, navigation, storm techniques, etc.? I often do Google searches and surf Amazon reviews to find my next books and have read books on a really wide variety of sailing topics this way,, they were all interesting and good and I keep a few ready for when I finish what I'm reading now (John Vigors The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat).

Based on your earlier questions and what you may have ahead of you I will recommend Don Casey's This Old Boat. It's a good read and even if you don't take on the project's in it the book will help you get a much broader and better understanding of all that is required to maintain/repair a boat. It's one of the books that I'd recommend that you read most of before buying a boat. For a good combination of information and entertainment the Pardey's various cruising books are great, and they will probably align with some of the goals that you have (small/simple). Royce's Sailing Illustrated is my favorite reference book and I recommend it highly. For instant gratification, if you want to read a great story that will get you excited about budget cruising in a small fiberglass boat I found James Baldwin's Across Islands and Oceans to be a great read and you can read it free online.

Atom Voyages | Voyages Aboard the Sailboat Atom - Across Islands and Oceans - A Journey Alone Around the World by Sail and by Foot - Introduction
That certainly makes sense. I've been addicted to the everyday mechanics of living on a boat lately, like daily maintenance, how much attention is required when sailing (autopilots, balanced steering, etc), anchoring, etc. My biggest technical concern is electricity. I'll be programming regularly, and even if I can't upload my work every day, I do need enough electricity to put in some work every night. So solar panels, wind turbines, and even water turbines are commonly found in my search history. Also, minimizing refrigeration and lighting electricity usage, and just being as efficient as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowcountry View Post
"A Sea Vagabond" by Bernaerd Moitessier
I'd heard about him. One of those crazy sailors that have become almost mythical legends. Definitely interested in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Plan B View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummingpariah View Post
...but I'm guessing sails, mast, and rigging add up more quickly than any other individual components.
Actually you may find engine work to be the most expensive. Repowering can cost upwards of $10,000. The effort required to extract an old diesel will be more than you can imagine. Likewise dropping in a new motor and aligning it with the prop shaft is hard work in very confined spaces. Look closely at the engine's hour meter. Small numbers are best. Over 5,000 hours is a lot of time on a diesel. Have a sample of the engine sent to a lab. Check it for metal fragments. Oil is an engine's blood.
That seems ridiculous. A 50hp engine (at most) without a geared transmission for $10k? I could build my own replacement engine in a week for half that. In any event, I'm pretty comfortable with engines. Just a compression test and sending my oil out to Blackstone Labs has always treated me well for my cars and trucks, and since the mechanics of boat engines aren't any different (they produce significantly less power, and the cooling systems are slightly different from automotive engines, but otherwise, they're the same)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Plan B View Post
Rigging is not such a big deal. Rent a crane with an operator. If you are careful and keep things under control you can have the mast out and horizontal for the cost of $500 in less than 2 hours. Then go over it from heel to mast head, inch by inch. And check the mast step too. Pull it out, clean it, prime and paint it.

You can find good second hand sails at an affordable price. Check baconsails.com. They are in Annapolis and handle lots of racer's sails that still have many good years of life in them.Check the keel bolts if it has a bolt on fin keel. Replace if rusted. You will sleep a lot better.Large old FG boats are surprisingly affordable. You should be able to find a Morgan 41 for about $35,000. I would advise you to buy not less than a 40 footer if you plan to live aboard. A boat that size will have plenty of storage for your winter clothes in the summer and visa versa.
All my possessions fit in a pair of duffel bags, other than my car and its associated toolboxes (which would be liquidated when I move onto a boat). That includes cookware/household tools/etc. I don't think I'll have a problem with something under 30ft, to be honest. There's no way I'm going to spend more than $15k on a boat, and that's the absolute maximum, after repairs.

Just out of curiosity, why would you say 40ft is the minimum? Is there simply something I'm missing altogether?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Plan B View Post
Stay away from wood unless you can build a floating Hepplewhite hutch. Boat carpentry is a high art. As a rule, wood goes on the interior to face you & fiberglass on the outside to face the weather.Stay away from ferocement. It has been around for a long time. There has never been a conspiracy to hold it back. That it has not caught on is a result of marine Darwinism.
Lastly, your life is worth something and you have only so many hours if it to expend on your boat project. Buy the most - best boat you can. Otherwise you just might buy a wreck put a lot of money into it and burn out long before it goes back in the water. That is exactly why you see so many abandoned boats in the marinas around Boston.
Fiberglass definitely makes sense to me. Inexpensive to build, strong, and extremely easy to repair. For what I'm looking for, there really aren't any other options. My time is certainly worth something to me, but I'll have to balance my time versus my time's pecuniary worth. I enjoy working on things, much more than I enjoy what I do for a paycheck. I'd say one hour of working for a paycheck is worth roughly 5 hours of working on my own boat that I'll live on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
also,assuming you manage to get to the caribean,getting to brazil direct from there is virtually impossible,being up wind,up current.

better plan on leaving east coast would be head for the azores during the summer, then fall west coast of europe/canary is,then head south for brazil over the winter and arrive in the carib in the spring,with all your sails still intact.

hence the saying fair winds and following seas,welcome to the forum.
You're right, just getting to the Caribbean is a big assumption, but I'm ok with setting my sights high. However, looking at the Azores WAAAAAAAY out there in the middle of the big blue, I'm pretty certain I'd just disappear and never be heard from again. I have a very healthy respect for the Ocean, and am very aware that the biggest shortcoming in this trip is my lack of experience. Drifting out into the Atlantic is something I want to avoid, not embrace

I hadn't really considered how the natural ocean currents would be fighting me the whole way down, to be honest. I won't be leaving until early Fall, at the soonest. I still need to find a boat, buy it, develop a little trust in it and myself, and provision up. So I have time to put together a more solid plan. This is exactly why I joined up here, to identify the holes in my plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeregrineSea View Post
My friend Webb Chiles did almost exactly that route when he left Boston - from Portugal and Gibraltar he went down to Dakar and over to Salvador in Brazil - then decided to do the south Atlantic over to Cape Town. My escape will be different - Canaries and then over to the Carribean, then through the canal .... but you know I would love to get to Salvador ...
I consider myself ambitious, but that's ... well, that's madness, for lack of any other suitable word. Crossing the Atlantic is quite simply out of the question for me. Coastal cruising other than a couple weather-conscious sprints across the Gulf Stream, and I've had enough of adventure.
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