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Old 19-08-2012, 19:14   #31
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

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Danielle-
I found out recently that my parents came very close to convrrting our family into liveaboards in the mid '70's. I sure wish they had done it. I think it would be a great world to bring up the kids if you are good teachers.

Welcome-scott
Scott~

I'm grateful for your post. I realize that everyone here has varying opinions about everything regarding liveaboard life/cruising/family lifestyles. With that in mind, I welcome everyone's perspectives because it gives me different ideas to twirl around in my noggin.

However, with that being said, I still have the final say in how my children are raised. I know them and their needs better than anyone, so I know I have to be totally comfortable with what i subject them to. In my particular case, we are a military family. As such, my children are subjected to constant moving, relocating schools, friends, homes, etc. It is a very stressful thing even in the BEST of situations. My daughter is a very affable, easy going kind of child...rolls with the punches and performs extraordinarily well in the current public school setting. My son is a different story. He has taken the hits of moving and making new friends and adapting to schools really hard. It's horrible watching his self esteem deteriorate with every new school year looming. He dreads it as much as I do. Such a boy of summer...much like his mama.

My thought is that I would very much like to offer him an alternative to traditional lifestyle, especially with school. He is a tactile learner, does best in environments where he has freedom of movement and isn't restricted to a desk 8 hours a day. I am very much interested in the fact that cruising allows me to filter what he's exposed to, that i can offer him culture and experiences that most people only read about in books or see on Discovery. It may not be a good choice for everyone, but I am willing to alter my lifestyle to make things easier for him in any way I can. If I know him like I think I do, he will very much enjoy being able to shrug off the chains of traditional public schooling for a more adventurous learning lifestyle.

In my eyes, that's a huge attraction!

So, again...I appreciate your thoughts on wishing you had gotten that chance. As I've said....we only get one chance at this life. I'd rather take the leap of faith and at least try it. Even if I fail or we all hate it, at least I gave it a full on, honest effort. In my mind, that's a WIN.

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Old 19-08-2012, 19:28   #32
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

My dad was in the coast guard and mom an English teacher. We moved around a lot and some of those moves were very rough on my brothers and I. Hard to say what the boat experience would've been but we were young enough for flexibility and my dads later success in Business didn't do much for our family as a unit; I think we were a better group in those early years and it may have worked. You are very well-spoken and I can tell are intelligent and caring so I am sure you'll make the best decisions. Good luck with your pursuit!
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Old 19-08-2012, 19:30   #33
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

I have seen the most amazing boat kids grow into the most amazing adults. very rarely have I seen it go wrong. But of course it is not easy. I raised my son aboard until he was 8. Not being his vice principle was a relief.
I know the attraction of a big cat , a lagoon is an expensive boat to buy and an expansive boat to maintain.
On one hand , one wishes it works out and you will be aboard for a decade or 3. On the other hand , one might think that a year aboard will signify a success.
Out in the world, I have found that in order to make money , I have to go to the expensive places, cuz that is where the money is , ( i am an artist , paintings).
I think I would look at the Formosa , or a 40 -50 foot full keel mono .
Good Luck.
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Old 19-08-2012, 19:48   #34
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

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...
I know the attraction of a big cat , a lagoon is an expensive boat to buy and an expansive boat to maintain.
On one hand , one wishes it works out and you will be aboard for a decade or 3. On the other hand , one might think that a year aboard will signify a success.
Out in the world, I have found that in order to make money , I have to go to the expensive places, cuz that is where the money is , ( i am an artist , paintings).
I think I would look at the Formosa , or a 40 -50 foot full keel mono .
Good Luck.
I too am an artist...I'm a jewelry designer. I have a thread going in the liveaboard forum about taking my business aboard....trying to figure out the space/supplies needed to condense my metalsmithing tools to a microcosm of studio space. I can see where the need to be where the work is becomes imminent. Luckily, I have been maintaining my business online and through a sales rep. That should transfer neatly onboard, at least in theory.

Moving on to boat choices...I'm admittedly green to this process. I'm reading anything and everything trying to deduce what's going to provide the most space, the most safety, the most reasonable pricing in terms of a used boat and upkeep. I was directed to the Lagoons and they seem to be a popular choice. I definitely like the open above the waterline layout. My understanding was that multihulls were a lot more stable in terms of safety and provided more deck space. I value my outdoor freedom as much as my indoor space, so having deck space that i can use as my "yard" seems like a good choice, especially w/ children.

I'm happy to hear the schools of thought on this from people with experience however....these are all things I'm surmising from having read only and not experienced in person. I could be outta' my gourd.
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Old 19-08-2012, 20:48   #35
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

safety of mono vs multi is not black and white , it is gray.
But for a cat to be safe , it needs to have the best standing rigging and the best sails.
A Cats safety valve is to speed up going downwind, subtracting the speed of the boat from the speed of the wind.
A monos safety valve is to tip over and spill the wind .
simply put .
But a mono can get by better with a smaller budget , generally.
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Old 20-08-2012, 00:06   #36
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

Personal opinion and your sea miles may vary: it's easier generally to go to sea with younger school-age children than with teens, some of whom are too heavily tied into peers to cast off easily from piers.
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Old 20-08-2012, 12:41   #37
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

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Personal opinion and your sea miles may vary: it's easier generally to go to sea with younger school-age children than with teens, some of whom are too heavily tied into peers to cast off easily from piers.
My thoughts exactly. My daughter is only going into 1st grade and has no real ties. My son, well, he's jostled from place to place w/ the Coast Guard moving us already. We're due to move again this next year. *sigh*
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Old 20-08-2012, 12:54   #38
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

Why not try "dock walking" and chat up some owners putzing with their boats. Tell them your dreams and I'll bet you get an invite to go sailing. Most non cruising sailors are usually looking for someone who appreciates sailin to go out for a daysail. Give it a try!
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Old 20-08-2012, 13:19   #39
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

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Why not try "dock walking" and chat up some owners putzing with their boats. Tell them your dreams and I'll bet you get an invite to go sailing. Most non cruising sailors are usually looking for someone who appreciates sailin to go out for a daysail. Give it a try!
Really? You think someone would be amenable to talk to me? I've been hesitant to look like the needy girl on the dock. LOL.

I really just want to talk to ANYONE w/ sailing experience that's willing to listen to me spill my dreams in their lap that has sound advice. My enthusiasm might be a bit scary! Hahahah.

I've decided that our money is best spent not on a $6K one week sailing class for two, b/c then when I leave, I still come home to no boat and no way to utilize my new skills.

I'm thinking (after researching further) that investing the $2K in a Tanzer 22' or something to that size/manageability will be the best starting point, even if it's just in fair condition, b/c then I can actually use it to my max allowable free time w/ my husband and my son who spent all summer sailing in a yacht club school. He, even at 10, will be helpful b/c he's done it.

So, I'm on the hunt!
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Old 20-08-2012, 13:28   #40
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

Dockwalking is a skill that is improved with practice. Some owners may be grumpy, unsociable, untrusting, or intolerant, but that's their problem. You can still make lots of friends by chatting up folks at the marina, find out about gatherings and events, get good advice, learn bits and pieces about working on boats, score some crew opportunities, and maybe get some old salts to come on your boat when you get one and help you with projects and sailing.
Many sailing and yacht clubs have on-line or paper bulletin boards for people who want to crew, especially for racing. A few clubs (and skippers, particularly on the more competitive boats) are on the snooty or exclusive-elite side, but others are much more welcoming and a few particularly welcoming and progressive clubs even have a "nobody left behind at the dock" policy.
While racing may or may not be of particular interest to you, it is a way to meet sailors and develop skills -- pretty much for free. Show up in nonmarking shoes, be safe, do what you're told and you can get invited back. And, along the way, you'll probably meet good captains and sailors and bad, and get opinions and your own ideas about lots of boats... all worthwhile.

PS: The people who run the sailboat races are sometimes desperate for volunteers to help out -- waving flags and honking horns to start races, moving buoys around, writing down times and sail numbers, etc. Lots of informed chat and gossip can be heard during the non-busy times on board, and this is yet another way to meet sailors and maybe even score an occasional sandwich. Also, the view from the committee boat is particularly good for learning about sailing technique.
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Old 20-08-2012, 13:32   #41
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

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Dockwalking is a skill that is improved with practice. Some owners may be grumpy, unsociable, untrusting, or intolerant, but that's their problem. You can still make lots of friends by chatting up folks at the marina, find out about gatherings and events, get good advice, learn bits and pieces about working on boats, score some crew opportunities, and maybe get some old salts to come on your boat when you get one and help you with projects and sailing.
Many sailing and yacht clubs have on-line or paper bulletin boards for people who want to crew, especially for racing. A few clubs (and skippers, particularly on the more competitive boats) are on the snooty or exclusive-elite side, but others are much more welcoming and a few particularly welcoming and progressive clubs even have a "nobody left behind at the dock" policy.
While racing may or may not be of particular interest to you, it is a way to meet sailors and develop skills -- pretty much for free. Show up in nonmarking shoes, be safe, do what you're told and you can get invited back. And, along the way, you'll probably meet good captains and sailors and bad, and get opinions and your own ideas about lots of boats... all worthwhile.
Solid advice. My only stumbling block is the huge cost associated w/ joining the Yacht Club here in Cape May. Astounding fees. My son was able to do the sailing school for free, as they gave the Coast Guard a number of scholarships. I may contact the head of the program though, and see what her thoughts are on getting my feet wet somehow. Sweetest British woman with a long standing history of racing and sailing. I forgot I had that contact in my arsenal!

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Old 20-08-2012, 13:53   #42
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

In populated sailing areas, there is generally a range of yacht and sailing clubs with very different prices, personalities, and focus areas; ranging from expensive dining clubs with a view to very primitive places to give access to the water to "paper clubs" without any facilities, to specialized groups of all kinds. It may take some hunting around and talking to people to find a useful group or club. Also, you probably don't have to join just to crew as a guest of an owner. Some fleets, one-design associations, and clubs have less expensive crew, trial, associate, or non-owner memberships, too.

Different topic: Many US states have boating education requirements, particularly for younger people (although Virginia, for one, is phasing in its requirements to apply to almost all boaters). The requirements can be met by in-person or on-line classes, and very inexpensively or sometimes for free. These classes do teach the basics of legal requirements, equipment, navigation, and how to avoid and respond to emergencies. Also relatively inexpensive are the boating classes offered to the public by the USCG Auxiliary, US power squadrons, etc. These also are not on-the-water, but still worthwhile. (They do also some heavy-duty training for people who join their groups.)
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Old 20-08-2012, 14:04   #43
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

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In populated sailing areas, there is generally a range of yacht and sailing clubs with very different prices, personalities, and focus areas; ranging from expensive dining clubs with a view to very primitive places to give access to the water to "paper clubs" without any facilities, to specialized groups of all kinds. It may take some hunting around and talking to people to find a useful group or club. Also, you probably don't have to join just to crew as a guest of an owner. Some fleets, one-design associations, and clubs have less expensive crew, trial, associate, or non-owner memberships, too.

Different topic: Many US states have boating education requirements, particularly for younger people (although Virginia, for one, is phasing in its requirements to apply to almost all boaters). The requirements can be met by in-person or on-line classes, and very inexpensively or sometimes for free. These classes do teach the basics of legal requirements, equipment, navigation, and how to avoid and respond to emergencies. Also relatively inexpensive are the boating classes offered to the public by the USCG Auxiliary, US power squadrons, etc. These also are not on-the-water, but still worthwhile. (They do also some heavy-duty training for people who join their groups.)
I will definitely look into utilizing the CG Aux since we belong to the CG already. I sent an email to my son's sailing school instructor asking where I might get my feet wet. She's been here for years and hopefully has a good idea or two. I may put my face into some of the marina's and ask about as well.

You all are extraordinarily helpful; I can't thank you enough for all the ideas and tips you've given me, privately or here on the boards.
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Old 21-09-2012, 18:33   #44
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Re: Pirate, Poet and Sailor...without a boat!

Aloha and welcome to the forum of many opinions!

I'm a retired Navy Command Master Chief and learned to sail through an MWR program offered via military nine years after I went shipboard and now many years ago. It was really a great thing to do and I do recommend that you find either CG, AF, Navy, or Army base MWR that offers sailing lessons and start there. They will all honor your dependents ID card. Get your husband to join you in the classes.

Then, if you and your husband think that you are ready for sailboat ownership then jump on a trailerable boat that you can keep parked at the base storage lots for very little cost or to keep in your driveway. My first boat was a Catalina 22 and they are good for what you want to do. I don't know the Tanzers that well so can't comment on them.

Good luck in however you get there and happy sailing!

kind regards,
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