Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-06-2013, 19:01   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto area when not cruising
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 668
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

Merc
The best of luck with your endeavour. Pursuing grand dreams results in grand achievements. There are lots of books and internet stuff about prepping your boat so lets assume that get that worked out. Two issues come to my mind. One has been mentioned a few times - crew. I think you need two capable crew, one (at least) with enough experience and common sense to basically make the tactical decisions onboard. You want someone who is relatively cautious since the boat is older and will not really be known to anyone onboard.

The second, and to me, bigger issue is scheduling. You need west coast people who know their stuff to tell you when you should leave Vancouver safely. Too late is very dangerous. The first major stop on the trip will be Southern California since this will be the last, best place to buy all the stuff and fix all the things that you learned about in this first stage. Next, big step is to Panama. You dont want to get too far south until hurricane season ends (early November). this should not be a problem since you have much to do, and a long way to sail. my concern would be getting south before winter. Going through the Panama Canal is not a big deal. You can get worry about that later.

Between Colon, Panama and the southern tip of Florida you will learn why people sailing around the world go the other way. You will be going against the Trade Winds. You will eventually pick up the Gulf Stream which is going the right way. Best to out of the Caribbean/Gulf of Mexico by June when the next hurricane season starts.

For your planning assume you will do 100 nm per 24 hours. If you can get away from Vancouver by the end of August, which seems reasonable. You could be in the Chesapeake by July. If you get ahead of schedule you can slow down and smell the sea roses from Panama onward.

Keep asking questions.

Bruce
__________________

__________________
Still looking for our next boat. Have decided we want to have something that will keep us happy for the next 10 years or so. By then I will be pushing 80 and if i am still sailing that will be a very good thing.
AiniA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 10:41   #47
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

My whole problem with this scenario is taking a untested wooden boat with a newb beyond cape flattery and down the coast is just asking for trouble. Staying 5 miles off the forgotten coast would run someone into the rocks here, and the chance of survival would be thin.
I have met lots of desperate sailors out there - VHF cutting in and out while they try to warn boats away from their position in the thick fog - while they hope for dawn and a favorable wind...and those boats and sailors were apparently solid when they left port.
No way is this youngster ready for that. I vote she day sails around her home for a couple years first. If she wants to sail the Chesapeake she needs to buy a boat there.
SF- this may sound harsh, but sailing between Cape Flattery and San Francisco is not for the newb. People die out here all the time, and they are experienced. I do however recommend the sheltered bays of the San Juans and other inland waterways. You need experience.
__________________

__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 11:17   #48
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

Whew... that's a bit harsh, Newt... I agree with you that the coast she is planning on cruising down can be a bit dicey but if she plans her passage to avoid the worst of the fog and bad weather at least as far as Point Conception, ensures that her boat is well found, and it sounds like it is in reasonably good nick, and she has an experienced crew with her from whom she can learn not only boat handling but maintenance, navigation and emergency techniques, she should be fine.
Too many would be sailors remain just that, would be sailors because they will never consider that their preparations of the vessel are complete, they don't have the knowledge to accomplish their trip, never will, or the weather is just a bit too iffy.
As long as she has basic skills, expereinced crew who can sail and teach and a reasonably well found vessel, my guess is she'll be fine... I would advise she go for it!
Cheers, Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 13:51   #49
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

That's just it Phil, she has been talking to me via PM, and she doesn't have the $$ for a captain. If she gets a few crew members that want the experience, and does not know what precautions to take for the coast- well I would much rather her hate me and go east to cruise than get in over her head and I hear about it via the cruisers chatter down at the port.
If she is willing to fork out the $$ for a seacaptain like boatman, with a gazillion years of sea experience, that would be cool. But you know the coast here. I got over my head after sailing for 30 years here because I didn't take a second experienced hand. The coast here is one unforgiving SOB, and I have been swept on tidal currents straight toward point disappointment, and know the panic that grips your crew.
She probably things I'm being a bit overprotective. But I'd rather have her curse me than show up on the CG missing list. Those that have sailed with me know that I am a bit passionate about safety. But then, I seem to push the mark often too. I guess the two go together in a strange way.
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 15:04   #50
Registered User
 
capttman's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Satellite Beach Florida
Boat: Bruce Roberts 434
Posts: 716
Send a message via Skype™ to capttman
Maybe we should encourage her to learn to read a chart, understand currents, set and drift. Then she might just understand she has to sail around those there rocks. Fog is very intimidating, she needs to understand radar could be her friend.
I think we all started with minimum experience some at a very young age; some older but we survived. I feel we can be cursed by the OP by being overprotective or we can encourage her to learn everything she can start with day tripping go slow go cautious and presto a couple of years later she's in Mexico. Or maybe California.. Go slow and learn and enjoy..
__________________
Capttman

"When the bow be in the trees we'll be running out of seas"
capttman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 15:05   #51
Registered User
 
capttman's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Satellite Beach Florida
Boat: Bruce Roberts 434
Posts: 716
Send a message via Skype™ to capttman
One more thought, we should all remember sailing isn't for everyone
__________________
Capttman

"When the bow be in the trees we'll be running out of seas"
capttman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 15:16   #52
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,670
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

Leaving WA in August, that may be okay (I haven't researched this), but that gives her arrival off the coast of Mexico in hurricane season, till the end of November. It's logistically a difficult-to-fulfill plan. We're looking at a journey of on the order of 6,000 miles, probably more through the water by the time you include counter-currents and landfalls and possible misadventures. [As one of the earlier posters mentioned, there will be breakages.]

For me, the lack of experienced crew with her, the age of the boat, the dangers of the "short hop" from Cape Flattery past Cape Mendocino, the weather challenges (hurricanes don't read the calendar) add up to it's being an over-risky plan.

The suggestion has been made that she learn to sail first, but she states she wishes to jump in. From what Newt writes, it seems she is not in a position to hire a "teacher-skipper" to help her. How can she possibly assess her plan realistically? Furthermore, while all of us started out not knowing anything about sailing, I doubt any of us at that stage planned a voyage of this nature!

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 15:20   #53
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Fox View Post
OK, so let me ask another newbie question:
Why can't I just stick to shore while I sail? Why can't I stay less than 5 miles from the shoreline?
Biggest problem with sticking to a shore is that land can become an enemy in rough weather ... and a dangerous one at that. It's a typical landlubber fault, believing you must head for shore when the sea and wind gets bad.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 16:49   #54
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

Point well made and taken, Newt, Ann and capttman... should she not have capable, experienced hands aboard, I would agree but I've made the trip many times in both directions as far south as Panama and as far north as Alaska, several with the express purpose of teaching the owners how to sail their new toy, navigate and boat handling.
Personally, I'm much more comfortable out around 40-50 miles than 5! Weather and sea conditions are better, too. There are one hell of a lot of rocks that jump out at ya within 5 miles of shore to say nothing of tide and set around river mouths like the Columbia as you mentioned.
Should she not be willing or able to hire the experience, learn underway and be guided by weather windows the whole trip, I agree she should not undertake the passage.
To Ann's point, arriving in San Diego and laying over to arrive in Bahia Magdelena after hurricane season makes a lot of sense. Besides, most insurance is void south of Ensenada until after Nov 1, I recall.
I hope I didn't set her wrong with my advice... Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 17:06   #55
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

If she would get in touch with either the Coast Guard Auxiliary or the US Power Squadron, she will be assured that she'll be in good hands. She needs to look-up their local chapters and ask for their guidance and training. There really is nothing else that we can do, as time and again we've cautioned her about the course she wants to take; it is laden with dangers and is not for a novice sailor. We all wish her the best!

Mauritz
__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 18:26   #56
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

I wish her the best too. As I mentioned in one of her PM's, if I had the time I would sail with her. I also have a professional captain just down the dock from me (don't we all) that would make a good teacher. We all find our way. May her karma guide her.
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 19:11   #57
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sarasota fl
Boat: Choey Lee 30
Posts: 235
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

newt, I have no experience with northern cal but if she picks her weather windows right I don't see what all the fuss is about,she never said she was going to do this trip with no idea how to sail.if she learns her charts, what's the bigdeal about sailing in this body of water. does it make you a better sailor if you sail in California I doubt it.
__________________
gah964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 19:16   #58
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

Hi Gah! She is unfamiliar with her very old wooden boat and she is an inexperienced sailor. The area she is considering sailing is a challenge to Old Salts, let alone a novice.

Mauritz
__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 19:24   #59
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sarasota fl
Boat: Choey Lee 30
Posts: 235
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknav View Post
Hi Gah! She is unfamiliar with her very old wooden boat and she is an inexperienced sailor. The area she is considering sailing is a challenge to Old Salts, let alone a novice.

Mauritz
hi mauritz, but it does not get calm in the area?idk just sounds strange that its wicked every day out of the week.
__________________
gah964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2013, 19:30   #60
Registered User
 
Teknav's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas - USA
Boat: Twin Otter de Havilland Floatplane
Posts: 1,838
Re: New Skipper, Old Boat

Calm weather is NOT the issue, even though it is the hurricane season. She needs to get hands-on seamanship knowledge/experience first. Would you dare sailing your boat if you didn't know how to read a chart? (Some people do just that, but nature takes care of them.)

Mauritz
__________________

__________________
Retired - Don't Ask Me To Do A Damn Thing!
Teknav is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
skipper

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.