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Old 09-05-2011, 05:59   #16
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

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Now heng on Bluey, fair suck of the sav.....(nor me!!). Yes will need to think long and hard about boat choice. To me though a boat always has to sail well, gives me confidence and in my price range there's not a lot of good glass boats that I know the pedigree of and can pick up locally but first of all I need to quit my launch before I start dreaming too hard! I guess internal space is pretty important for a liveaboard.

Yeh I have to be honest. I have spent most of my life racing also. So most boats I have looked at lately have been performance oriented too. But then reality set in after a while that I would need to consider the realities of comfort as well as speed. Let alone price... Sigh! I have even looked at (dare I say it) centre cockpit- long keel boats. Mainly cos the CC provides a private area with great airy headroom and the long keel provides a more manageable boat in a blow. Somewhere in the middle of all that is the perfect boat.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:50   #17
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

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Yeh I have to be honest. I have spent most of my life racing also. So most boats I have looked at lately have been performance oriented too. But then reality set in after a while that I would need to consider the realities of comfort as well as speed. Let alone price... Sigh! I have even looked at (dare I say it) centre cockpit- long keel boats. Mainly cos the CC provides a private area with great airy headroom and the long keel provides a more manageable boat in a blow. Somewhere in the middle of all that is the perfect boat.
When you say that the long keel helps in a blow how does this manifest itself, heaving to? The other techniques of firstly lying ahull seems to be a bit dangerous if the wind gets up a bit further and running off might not be a lot in it particularly if you get up into drogue territory where lighter displacement might make it easier on the attachments?
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Old 09-05-2011, 23:41   #18
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

Long keel boats are less likely to broach when off the breeze. The nature of the entire design "generally" provides a much more gentler ride. Although, much less responsive in and around marinas in particular.

If you think about the CLR being only the size of a dinner plate on a deep, fin keeled racing boat. In comparison, lateral resistance is more like the whole dinner table on a long keel boat. A poorly worded example- but it kind of explains what I mean.

Yes the boat is heavier. But its not about the wieght of the boat, its about the weight of the pull. I dont think that there are too many long keel boats that have had thier fittings ripped out of thier deck because of a drogue.

Having said all that. In my previous post, I said I had been considering long keel. I dont know that I will end up with one, because its just too much of a performance back step, having been a racer. But I can certainly appreciate thier values. Somewhere in the middle of a performance boat and the long keel boat will be my choice.

Sadly my prefered cruising boat doesnt live in the southern hemisphere. I have become a fan of the moody 34cc's. But they are all living in europe with the occasional one in the US.
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Old 09-05-2011, 23:48   #19
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

Let me add my welcome to CF, Phil... Bruce Farr is a fine designer and good meld of race/cruise IMHO. Don't be flushed away by CC designs. When you are passage making , if that is your intent, they are drier than other designs. The longer keel in my experience, while slower, tend to be more stable in a big blow, like over 50kn wind speed. With your racing background, you may feel more comfortable in a faster hull configuration able to out run bad weather but for creature comfort on the hook or mooring, a full keel, CC is pretty comfortable... cheers, Capt Phil
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:38   #20
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

Hi Phil, welcome, There are lots of different designs that will fill the bill for world cruising they are all a compromise in one way or another, yes you will spend a lot of your time at anchor, think ventilation!! You will also spend a lot of time with light to very light airs, think light sails, possibly even a light weight main. Every boat dresses for a blow, but the percentages of heavy air to light air when cruising is around 15% heavy air to 85% medium to light, very light air, did I mention ventillation!! Most Kiwi cruiser racers are fantastic upwind boats as for some reason down here the wind always comes from the front, they are not so good off the wind without spinakers etc. Also the average speed of most cruisers no matter what the design is in general is around 4 to 5 knots so a cruiser racer isn't necessarily the go. I sail a twin centre boarder that has circumnavigated, it works well for me, especially off the wind, a Farr 38 would leave me in its wake on the wind. Lying a hull, every boat has its quirks but a series drouge or a suitably sized parachute anchor set up correctly will give a good nights sleep in all but the most extreme conditions without losing a lot to drift / leeway.
Go for it, lots of Kiwis on the water, one more has got to be a plus.
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:14   #21
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

Thanks Oz, don't know how I'll get on with a boat that handles like a gigantic hump-a-lead. I've done a little sailing on a mate's 38" Alden cutter, traditional wine-glass double ender. The rudder just feels like an "optional exra" and it heels in 5 knots having no form stability but then gets along just fine albeit a little wet. Great on the anchor though, just sits there. In a similar price aea to the Farr 38 is the Cavalier 39 but again they have IOR influence (little main, big jibs, pinched ends) so you wouldn't think they would be as sea kindly as the Farr. Just like 3/4 rigs I guess. On the subject of bigger keels and CLR, have you followed any of Steve Dashew's stuff on heavy weather boat handling? Guess the Moody 34's are pricey?
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:21   #22
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

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Let me add my welcome to CF, Phil... Bruce Farr is a fine designer and good meld of race/cruise IMHO. Don't be flushed away by CC designs. When you are passage making , if that is your intent, they are drier than other designs. The longer keel in my experience, while slower, tend to be more stable in a big blow, like over 50kn wind speed. With your racing background, you may feel more comfortable in a faster hull configuration able to out run bad weather but for creature comfort on the hook or mooring, a full keel, CC is pretty comfortable... cheers, Capt Phil
Thanks Cap'n Phil, these CC boats are liable to be a bit out of my price range, say US$75K, but it's nice to have a dry cockpit area at least. More food for thought....
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Old 11-05-2011, 03:33   #23
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

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Hi Phil, welcome, There are lots of different designs that will fill the bill for world cruising they are all a compromise in one way or another, yes you will spend a lot of your time at anchor, think ventilation!! You will also spend a lot of time with light to very light airs, think light sails, possibly even a light weight main. Every boat dresses for a blow, but the percentages of heavy air to light air when cruising is around 15% heavy air to 85% medium to light, very light air, did I mention ventillation!! Most Kiwi cruiser racers are fantastic upwind boats as for some reason down here the wind always comes from the front, they are not so good off the wind without spinakers etc. Also the average speed of most cruisers no matter what the design is in general is around 4 to 5 knots so a cruiser racer isn't necessarily the go. I sail a twin centre boarder that has circumnavigated, it works well for me, especially off the wind, a Farr 38 would leave me in its wake on the wind. Lying a hull, every boat has its quirks but a series drouge or a suitably sized parachute anchor set up correctly will give a good nights sleep in all but the most extreme conditions without losing a lot to drift / leeway.
Go for it, lots of Kiwis on the water, one more has got to be a plus.
Cheers Steve, a twin centreboard alloy boat sounds interesting, I guess you keep it on the Waitemata? It's probably a few years before I actually get offshore so could experiment with one boat locally then change if I need to. I had a Stewart 34 for years and loved that but it doesn't want to steer itself with it's unusual keel and rig setup so would be too much of a handful offshore. Before that I had a Ross 830 which was the complete opposite for ease of handling but not powerful enough for Auckland's chop. Certainly in my reading a Jordan Series Drogue would be a necessity for peace of mind when it all turned to custard!
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Old 11-05-2011, 04:11   #24
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

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Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Let me add my welcome to CF, Phil... Bruce Farr is a fine designer and good meld of race/cruise IMHO. Don't be flushed away by CC designs. When you are passage making , if that is your intent, they are drier than other designs. The longer keel in my experience, while slower, tend to be more stable in a big blow, like over 50kn wind speed. With your racing background, you may feel more comfortable in a faster hull configuration able to out run bad weather but for creature comfort on the hook or mooring, a full keel, CC is pretty comfortable... cheers, Capt Phil
BTW Phil, you have a DeFever trawler by the look of it, have you taken it offshore?
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Old 14-05-2011, 23:02   #25
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

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Originally Posted by I14 View Post
Thanks Oz, don't know how I'll get on with a boat that handles like a gigantic hump-a-lead. I've done a little sailing on a mate's 38" Alden cutter, traditional wine-glass double ender. The rudder just feels like an "optional exra" and it heels in 5 knots having no form stability but then gets along just fine albeit a little wet. Great on the anchor though, just sits there. In a similar price aea to the Farr 38 is the Cavalier 39 but again they have IOR influence (little main, big jibs, pinched ends) so you wouldn't think they would be as sea kindly as the Farr. Just like 3/4 rigs I guess. On the subject of bigger keels and CLR, have you followed any of Steve Dashew's stuff on heavy weather boat handling? Guess the Moody 34's are pricey?
Steve Dasher. No I havent.

Moody 34s, They arent particularly pricey, They just arent in Aus. They are mainly in Europe and east coast US.
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Old 15-05-2011, 14:24   #26
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

Welcome aboard and enjoy Cruisers Forum.
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Old 15-05-2011, 16:31   #27
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

Hi 114, I keep Gwalarn in Whangarei, If you want to look at Dashew boats they are being built by Circa marine in Whangarei, I think they are currently up to No.6 or 7.
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Old 16-05-2011, 05:02   #28
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

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Hi 114, I keep Gwalarn in Whangarei, If you want to look at Dashew boats they are being built by Circa marine in Whangarei, I think they are currently up to No.6 or 7.
Thanks Steve, I'm on the Dashew's mailout list but they're talking big dollars. Quite like the philosophy of his designs though with his powerboats after a lifetime designing fast sailboats. His emphasis is on sea-kindliness and safety.
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Old 25-05-2011, 12:31   #29
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Re: New Member from Auckland, NZ

Aloha and welcome aboard!
Best racing sailors I ever met came from New Zealand originally from Tasmania. Must be something in the breeding.
kind regards,
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Old 26-05-2011, 04:03   #30
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Re: New Member from Auckland - NZ

Hi John, you get some pretty good sailing in around your lovely islands so more than a match for us kiwis!
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