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Old 04-05-2007, 00:42   #1
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Maxi Mini-Cruiser

Hello from another newbie! Originally from Southern California and grew up into my teen years in Pittwater, Australia. Sailed dinghy's and the family's 20 foot wooden sailboat with a single cylinder diesel.

Was landlocked for years chasing career and got into airplanes - I am a glider and power pilot as well as an FAA certified mechanic. Sea sports have always remained a passion and I Scuba dive, water ski etc.

Relocated to Singapore a couple of years ago and almost made the "mistake" of buying a power boat but fortunately lack of decent supply held me off. About 6 months ago I started sailing again with the parallel goal of introducing my 9 y/o son to sailing as well. Completed a keelboat refresher course and have been renting J24s.

Recently I met my partner and almost overnight we have become boat owners. We went in with a couple of goals.

1/ Buy half the boat we can afford - Leave money for learning
2/ Buy half the boat we think we can handle - Don't get in over our heads!
3/ Make sure we can sail at night and overnight/weekend in the boat - An inboard engine and electrical system is important
4/ Make sure the famlies enjoy it - It must have a head, and a galley would be nice

So we bought a Maxi 77. It's in pretty darn good shape, was remasted (+ new sails) and the 10hp Volve Penta overhauled a couple of years ago. The hull is sound so we think the major stuff is covered. The previous owner's kids grew up and he was at the point where he sailed every 3-4 months. The good news was that he had a trailer and it was stored on land the whole time.

We have started our list of maintenance items so welcome to boat ownership, I guess - LOL. The items so far are indicative of lack of use - dried out bilge pump seals and so on. We plan to take car of the "safety" items right away - e.g the seacocks for the head are frozen - but the cosmetic stuff we plan to accumulate for a month or so and work up a good list of items to work on all at once.

We plan to use the boat to gain experience in coastal waters and even though she is small do some overnight/weekend trips and get a taste of on-board life. I figure that at this point our luck bag is pretty full and our experience bag is empty. We will go slow and over time trade our luck for experience.

I have browsed several of the topics and you all seem like a pretty nice, and more importantly experienced, group of people. I look forward to asking lot's of newbie questions and learning from your experience.


Thanks for listening!
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Old 04-05-2007, 12:32   #2
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Aloha Dan,
Welcome aboard!! I'm not familiar with a Maxi 77 but was shocked when I saw the 77 thinking it was 77 foot boat (stupid of me, eh?) Kind of like the J designations 105 and all that. Confusing to me.
Good luck on your new boat. The photo in your profile is really great.
Kind Regards,
JohnL
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Old 04-05-2007, 17:21   #3
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Welcome, Dan . . .

I have an Ex in Calif, so your post got my attention right away! I enjoyed reading your post, and I'm glad to see you've made it back out on the water.

Again, welcome to the Forum.

TaoJones
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Old 05-05-2007, 09:40   #4
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Thanks for the welcomes. Yes boat designations are confusing. I am a complete dunce when it comes to makes and models and am always amazed by the folks who can name all the boats on the moorings. My partner is a bit like that. Great head for names and stuff. He is my "Julie" from Love Boat - the cruise director - an I am the guy who hangs out in the bilge - LOL.

The Maxi 77 is 7.7 meters and depending on who you ask this is either 25 or 26 feet. We are having the thru hulls replaced this week and I was pretty happy to see the thickness of the hull. It looks like about 1/4 inch. Very satisfying knowing there is some boat between us and the ocean.

I spent the day puttering around with odd jobs. Our boat mechanic is doing the thru hulls while I got to tighten the alternator belt, rebuild the manual bilge pump and fix the engine "idiot" lights which weren't working.

We are going to start storing her on the hook so tomorrow I am going to install an electric bilge pump system before we drop her back in the water at 2PM.

This will complete the list of major stuff and then we are going to try and enjoy her for a while. I hope to post stories of our learning adventures and learn from all the experienced salts around here.

Cheers
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Old 05-05-2007, 12:00   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif
2/ Buy half the boat we think we can handle - Don't get in over our heads!
I'd say buy the back half.

Seriously, welcome aboard!

Another ex-Cal here. But spent most of my life up and down the West Coast (US). My Father was a Merchant Marine and he had a saying "There is no life East of Interstate 5" (I-5 the freeway that runs from Tijuana, MX to Vancouver, BC). And I think he's right! I spent 3 years in Arizona and it's just way too much dirt!

It sounds like you have a plan. Just make sure the bottom side is all seaworthy before putting her in the piss. The rest can be done at leisure.

If your going to store her on the hook? Might I suggest a solar panel to keep the battery up for the security of the bilge pump.

Enjoy the adventure...................................._/)
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Old 05-05-2007, 19:01   #6
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If your going to store her on the hook? Might I suggest a solar panel to keep the battery up for the security of the bilge pump.
Thanks delmarrey. Well unfortunately we were a little east of I-5. Upland in fact - Not quite to San Bernardino out I-10. he last few years my brother and I have been sailnig his littel force 5 on Puddingstone and smeaking off to San Diego for Catalina 24(?) rentals. It's really great to have my own boat and to have to so close to hand. It's about 15 minutes from my house to the club.

I love the solar panel idea and we have a good spot for two small ones on the back bimini. Maybe this is an after summer addition. We have scads of room below the cockpit floor panel where I am sure we can add a 3rd battery. I kind of like the idea of isolating the bilge pumping system with maybe a way to tie it in for alternate power if needed.

I'd love to hear ideas on this. For now we have twin isolated batteries on the system and will wire the pump in hot on it's own fused circuit.

Another question is whether I should run the electric pump hoses in series with the manual pump? The electric pump is a thrash pump so should not impeded the drawing action of the manual pump. Running them in series gives the advantage of not having to make anoother thru hull or complicating things with t-fittings and inevitable one way valves.

Any thoughts on this?
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Old 05-05-2007, 20:27   #7
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pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Another question is whether I should run the electric pump hoses in series with the manual pump? The electric pump is a thrash pump so should not impeded the drawing action of the manual pump. Running them in series gives the advantage of not having to make anoother thru hull or complicating things with t-fittings and inevitable one way valves.

Any thoughts on this?
Yo Ex,

never plumb them in series. Each pump should have its' own pickup and outlet, with its' own vented loop. No T's. No checkvalves. No Y-valves.

Simple. Redundant. Safe.

best, andy
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Old 05-05-2007, 22:21   #8
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Aloha Ex,
I ditto what Terra says but you can use one thru hull if you have a simple manifold just a bit higher than it where two can flow into one (which is larger) and then out the thru hull. Your thru hull discharge is above the waterline, right?
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Old 06-05-2007, 07:47   #9
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Aloha Ex,
I ditto what Terra says but you can use one thru hull if you have a simple manifold just a bit higher than it where two can flow into one (which is larger) and then out the thru hull. Your thru hull discharge is above the waterline, right?
Regards,
JohnL
The thru hull is definitely above the water line but it is in a cockpit side locker just below the seat so there is no way to route the pipe above the outlet unless I punch a couple of holes in the cockpit seat .

Wish I had read this advice before today because I installed the electric pump in series and plumbed it all in today. Both pumps are working like a charm .

I definitely see the point that if the electric pump shreds it could disable the manual pump downstream. I guess I am trying to convince myself that we have one system now. We really didn't need two systems, what we were aiming for is some "insurance" on the hook and the electric pump may save the day if we are not around.

In a perfect world dual completely redundant systems would be nice but there is no way I am putting in another thru hull. As a last resort we still have buckets and if two pumps and two buckets won't keep her afloat, I am having a really bad day
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Old 06-05-2007, 10:07   #10
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In a perfect world dual completely redundant systems would be nice but there is no way I am putting in another thru hull. As a last resort we still have buckets and if two pumps and two buckets won't keep her afloat, I am having a really bad day
Dan, couldn't agree more. Cost vs benefit. I can tell you from experience, you can do allot with a bucket
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Old 06-05-2007, 10:09   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

I guess I am trying to convince myself that we have one system now.

In a perfect world dual completely redundant systems would be nice but there is no way I am putting in another thru hull.
Yo Ex,

you must realise that what you have done is not installed one proper system, but compromised two such systems (one can backflow into the other).

The bottom of the sea is quite littered with the remains of vessels whose owners refused to properly install their bilge pumps.

best, andy
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Old 06-05-2007, 18:10   #12
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Compromised is an interesting term. Both systems work and they share hoses. Anyway, forewarned is fair warned.

Probably a more important task is to periodically service, maintain and test both systems. When we got the boat no system was working and the previous owner didn't know because he never tested.

Thanks for the tips everyone.
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:11   #13
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As Andy (Tera Nova) advises, two pumps in series do not a redundant system make, nor it a a good idea in this application. The inoperative pump reduces the output of the operating pump. Neither pump, in your "system" is operating at it's designed capacity.

For pumps in serial - add heads.
When two (or more) operating pumps are arranged in series, their resulting (combined) pump performance curve is obtained by adding heads at the same flow rate.

For pumps in parallel - add flow rates.
When two or more operating pumps are arranged in parallel, their resulting performance curve is obtained by adding their flow rates at the same head.

When one of the pumps is not operating in a series connection, the inoperative pump results in additional friction head, reducing the operating pump’s flow rate.

Discharge Sea Chest:
See the pic, and note that the multiple drain lines gravity feed to the through-hull discharge. This helps to prevent backflow, without the use of check valves.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/gallery...1420&catid=500
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