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Old 19-02-2013, 15:57   #1
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Hi from Q

Hi,

(forgive my English, I'm french)

A newborn to the world of sailing, and may be not even quite out of the womb yet. Got my elementary license in the Fall, bought a boat a month later (a 1971 Paceship P29 - see picture), been panting ever since. The boat is in Chester, Nova Scotia, and I have to bring it 2K km west to lake Champlain (inspection gives two thumbs up). I get transporting quotes in the $3k range to do so. A life of adventure and penny pinching is stirring me toward sailing it home single handed. My father (85) think I'm insane, my admiral think I'm a hero.

Help...

Bazz
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Old 19-02-2013, 16:37   #2
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(excuse my french.. I'm english)... Welcome to CF..
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Old 20-02-2013, 06:06   #3
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Bienvenue, Bazz! That quote seems quite reasonable. The sail sounds a lot more fun, if you have the time, but might cost you a couple $K anyway not counting the time. Good luck!
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Old 20-02-2013, 08:32   #4
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I know, $3K isn't that bad a price for moving 7K lbs along 13K km. And dime for dime, I would probably take the ground transport over the sail, if only for the sake of time saved. But I don't see this 3 week's cruise costing over $1K, especially if you don't count groceries (I have to eat anyway). So for 20 days, my real expense is gas and marina or mooring fees, right? Fuel economy for this rig is around 1 gallon an hour at 5.5 knots, so roughly $3.50 for 10 Km. I certainly have to motor for 300 km, that's $105, make it $150. If I go to a marina every other night, and have average fee around $50 a day, that's $500. I'm still only at $650. All of this based on an average of 52 nautical miles a day (96 km), it could be less. Of course, weather intervening it could be more. But I don't see it going near the ground transportation figure.On the other hand, that's all probably only rationalizations, the fact of the matter simply being that I'm quite tempted by the adventure.
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Old 20-02-2013, 08:38   #5
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Welcome Aboard Bazz.
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Old 20-02-2013, 09:12   #6
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Regardless of the price, hope you can find time for the adventure option!
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Old 20-02-2013, 09:34   #7
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Hi Bazz, I did some great sailing around Lunenberg after a Halifax race... I look at Google Earth and don't see a lake Champlain around Chester (where is it?)...

2k? why would you truck the boat?
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Old 20-02-2013, 11:03   #8
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That is Lake Champlain, New-York state, USA. A conservative itinerary to get there could go something like : Chester – Pleasant point – Liscomb Island – Cape Auguet – Ballantyne’s cove - St Peters Island – Cedar Dunes park – Burns Island – Percé – St Yvon – La Martre – Matane – Rimouski – Cacouna – Saint Jean Port Joli – Québec city – St Pierre les Becquets – Sorel – St Jean Richelieu – Rouses Point (Lake Champlain).

An average of 52 nautical miles a day for 19 days, for a total of 983 nautical miles (1819 km).
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Old 22-02-2013, 05:42   #9
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Hi Bazz,
So you meant that “Lake Champlain” …. Interesting situation. I understand your father’s attitude. When I was (possibly your age) 35 I bought a Catalina 25 with an unreliable 9 hp outboard. I took the boat from New York City to Boston by myself. The engine didn’t make the whole trip. About 1/5 of the adventurous journey you are discussing. Your Paceship is twice the boat I had then. I never was in danger. I certainly didn’t make 50 km/day but one day I made 100km with a perfect wind , a spinnaker up. That leg I stayed up over night.

35 years later I’m still sailing. That round trip was the beginning of my becoming an intrepid sailor.

I was a college teacher so I had from late May thru August off. This June I hope to circumnavigate “Del-Mar-Va, the peninsula formed by the Chesapeake. A trip I’ve done before. I’ll take perhaps 2 weeks with a lot of stops at friends on the route. But 2 overnights (but certainly not single-handed).

You’re in an interesting situation. If I were you and didn’t have responsibilities and had the time, I’d do it. But it’s the kind of trip you could write a book about which I’d buy. I would check the rigging well, the mast. The engine really doesn’t keep you alive – it usually gets sailors into trouble when they think they need it. And use scopalomine when you go away from the coast. And when the winds pick up (which it will) don't try to go upwind. A friend (even if they don’t sail) would make it much less adventurous – they would be a good sailor on the 5th day.

Good luck. I’m a father with a son perhaps your age. ( Notice I didn’t ask why you bought that boat in Chester.) I’m almost too polite. I wish I could go. Around Cape Breton and across the St. Lawrence Straits would cap my life…......_/),,,,,,,.
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Old 22-02-2013, 09:46   #10
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Hi flopresti,

Thank you for your informative and inspiring post. It is indeed an interesting situation for me, and I haven't decided anything yet. Just to put things in perspective, I'm 54, a university professor with two rambunctious teenagers, reasonably fit with athletic inclinations (I still do competitive fencing). I may have the time if I invest all my vacation into it, and if my wife accepts to hold the fort by herself while I’m doing so. For the rest, I'm well travelled and I've always liked to pilot things. I've owned and/or driven cars, trucks, buses, off-roads, unicycles, bicycles, motorcycles, airplanes, canoes, windsurf boards, etc. My all time preference going to motorcycles, been riding for 40+ years, with more than 300K km in 13 countries under my wrist - my current ride is a 2005 Hayabusa.

So, never a sailboat before last year. Honestly, after 4 days, I found the maneuvers (on a sloop) to be more intuitive and less demanding that those of a windsurf board. Not to say that I mastered them, far from it, but I mean, the sails stay in place once set, you stir with a tiller that requires only arm movement, this while sitting or standing, you have many means to read the wind and, for the most part, you can stay dry. Tired? Anchor or heave-to, and have a nap inside. Paradise. As opposed to always have to hold the boom with your hands or hips, stirring the board with your heels/toes and body position, reading the wind mainly with your face and having to wet your bum sitting in the drink every time you want to recuperate - lots of fun, for sure – I’ve done a decade of it, but quite difficult, fidgety and tiresome on the long run.

Forces at play on a sailboat are much stronger, and a different kind of caution is in order. This is the first thing I've learned in this forum (been lurking for 2 years before subscribing): sailors are a prudent bunch. And even then, according to the 2011 accident report, 70% of all fatal boating accident victims drowned, and of those, 84% were not wearing a life jacket. Also, 75% of fatalities occurred in less than 2 feet waves, and 78% in moderate winds or less. Add to that the fact that only 6% of deaths occur in ocean/gulf, but twice as more (12%) in marinas, harbors, channels, etc., and about half of fatal accidents occur in plain daylight with excellent visibility. So, somewhere in there is the idea that caution, of the proactive type, where you’re constantly trying to foresee problems as much as you’re trying to disprove your solutions – and not succeeding, is an approach you can’t do without while sailing.

The way I see it, the real killer, (other than lack of educated caution) with a sailboat is navigation, not maneuvers or weather. Shores, rocks, buoys, fog, other ships, currents, tides, etc., all happening at the same time, more or less in the same horizontal plane, while you're trying to move along a specific direction. On a motorcycle, the decision that will kill you, you have taken it 3 or 4 seconds earlier – reflexes have very little to do with it. I figure on a sailboat, it may be a decision you’ve taken minutes earlier, maybe even hours earlier – and to extend a vigilance window that wide, in a much larger field of considerations, constitutes for me part of the real challenge here. And wouldn’t I have already an extensive experience in other types of navigation, both with and without GPS (hiking, canoe trips, airplane, motorcycle voyages), I would probably not even think about it.

Of course, sailing is a lifelong skill, one I’m sure you never cease to acquire, and I would not presume to reduce it to comparisons and statistics. But the actual feel I have for the whole thing is that with great caution, good preparation, help from sailor friends, a bit more training and a hint of luck, I have a more than reasonable chance to do this Chester run.

Last thought: Wouldn't be safer (and faster) to go through Port Hawksbury and the Northumberland Straight, rather than around Cape Breton and onward to the gaspesian peninsula?
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Old 22-02-2013, 18:58   #11
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Welcome to the forum...originally from Ontario
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Old 22-02-2013, 19:10   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazz View Post
Hi flopresti,

Thank you for your informative and inspiring post. It is indeed an interesting situation for me, and I haven't decided anything yet. Just to put things in perspective, I'm 54, a university professor with two rambunctious teenagers, reasonably fit with athletic inclinations (I still do competitive fencing). I may have the time if I invest all my vacation into it, and if my wife accepts to hold the fort by herself while I’m doing so. For the rest, I'm well travelled and I've always liked to pilot things. I've owned and/or driven cars, trucks, buses, off-roads, unicycles, bicycles, motorcycles, airplanes, canoes, windsurf boards, etc. My all time preference going to motorcycles, been riding for 40+ years, with more than 300K km in 13 countries under my wrist - my current ride is a 2005 Hayabusa.

So, never a sailboat before last year. Honestly, after 4 days, I found the maneuvers (on a sloop) to be more intuitive and less demanding that those of a windsurf board. Not to say that I mastered them, far from it, but I mean, the sails stay in place once set, you stir with a tiller that requires only arm movement, this while sitting or standing, you have many means to read the wind and, for the most part, you can stay dry. Tired? Anchor or heave-to, and have a nap inside. Paradise. As opposed to always have to hold the boom with your hands or hips, stirring the board with your heels/toes and body position, reading the wind mainly with your face and having to wet your bum sitting in the drink every time you want to recuperate - lots of fun, for sure – I’ve done a decade of it, but quite difficult, fidgety and tiresome on the long run.

Forces at play on a sailboat are much stronger, and a different kind of caution is in order. This is the first thing I've learned in this forum (been lurking for 2 years before subscribing): sailors are a prudent bunch. And even then, according to the 2011 accident report, 70% of all fatal boating accident victims drowned, and of those, 84% were not wearing a life jacket. Also, 75% of fatalities occurred in less than 2 feet waves, and 78% in moderate winds or less. Add to that the fact that only 6% of deaths occur in ocean/gulf, but twice as more (12%) in marinas, harbors, channels, etc., and about half of fatal accidents occur in plain daylight with excellent visibility. So, somewhere in there is the idea that caution, of the proactive type, where you’re constantly trying to foresee problems as much as you’re trying to disprove your solutions – and not succeeding, is an approach you can’t do without while sailing.

The way I see it, the real killer, (other than lack of educated caution) with a sailboat is navigation, not maneuvers or weather. Shores, rocks, buoys, fog, other ships, currents, tides, etc., all happening at the same time, more or less in the same horizontal plane, while you're trying to move along a specific direction. On a motorcycle, the decision that will kill you, you have taken it 3 or 4 seconds earlier – reflexes have very little to do with it. I figure on a sailboat, it may be a decision you’ve taken minutes earlier, maybe even hours earlier – and to extend a vigilance window that wide, in a much larger field of considerations, constitutes for me part of the real challenge here. And wouldn’t I have already an extensive experience in other types of navigation, both with and without GPS (hiking, canoe trips, airplane, motorcycle voyages), I would probably not even think about it.

Of course, sailing is a lifelong skill, one I’m sure you never cease to acquire, and I would not presume to reduce it to comparisons and statistics. But the actual feel I have for the whole thing is that with great caution, good preparation, help from sailor friends, a bit more training and a hint of luck, I have a more than reasonable chance to do this Chester run.

Last thought: Wouldn't be safer (and faster) to go through Port Hawksbury and the Northumberland Straight, rather than around Cape Breton and onward to the gaspesian peninsula?
4 days of sailing,sounds like you did master it if you got in and out of port, Navigation ie. avoiding rocks and shallow water and your an instructor! lol..good luck and welcome
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:44   #13
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Re: Hi from Q

Aloha and welcom aboard!

Good luck in your adventure. If you don't do it you'll always say you should have.

If you do truck the boat make certain you have very good insurance for the boat and all it's rigging and you get everything in writing. Don't depend on the trucker's insurance company to cover in case there is a mishap.

kind regards,
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Old 27-06-2013, 07:40   #14
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Re: Hi from Q

A quick and final update on this thread: I did find a ground transport from Chester NS (CA) to Rouses Point NY (US), at 1,500 CAD everything included (taxes, permits, incidentals, etc.) by a professional transporter. I'm very satisfied with the outcome. I'm now in the final stages of repairs and preparations and it should be in the water within the week!
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Old 27-06-2013, 09:49   #15
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Re: Hi from Q

Sorry that you missed out on the adventure, but happy for your successful outcome.

Enjoy your sailing and your new learning experiences, and don't forget to let us all know how you are getting on.

Cheers,

Jim
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