HELP for a soon to be brand new cruiser

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Charlie

Hi Anne:


I recently ran across a guy who is selling an Amel 41 cc Ketch.

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I am pretty sure I have looked at that many pages in Yachtworld in the past..............



Sorry, couldn't resist. ......



This one is 136k

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

[Mike Banks]

Hey Cowboy--

Two used to compact living can cross an ocean in a thirty foot double ender--it all depends on the level of comfort you desire when on the hook and the number of guests you plan to have aboard.

A couple I knew retired from active cruising at seventy-something to buy a motor caravan and trailer-sailer. They left a thirty six foot Van de Stadt in steel which was new when they bought it in about 1970 and they had set it up as well as any vessel I have ever seen. Thirty-something years aboard--and the vessel looked and surveyed as new.

The on-going costs in cruising have to be considered too. Boats with big diesel engines cost big money to run and replace. My forty foot plus trimaran has only a thirty horsepower diesel engine--and that is thirsty enough. Big boats have big engines, big paint areas--heavy gear and big sails. All cost money to replace.

My advice is to buy the smallest boat you can comfortably fit into. I like the Gozzard designed Tayana 36--they built a heap of them and they are strongly built.

My own preference is steel--a Tom Colvin Gazelle is forty two feet long in the hull with an additional eight feet or so of bowsprit. They are easily driven with easily handled rig, ketch or junk, and have a diesel engine of twenty to thirty horsepower..

Bowsprits serve many purposes--they allow the foremast to be placed a little further forwars and allow for a larger aft sail, they are almost an essential for a schooner rig with a smaller foresail than her aft mainsail, with her full length keel, and they have a useful lift component which helps the boat rise to a sea without destroying her trim--but a bowsprit has disadvantages in a marina where they add about eight to ten feet or more to the vessel's overall length and hence her berthing and slippage costs.

Cheoy Lee have a good name as do Tayana and Formosa as far as hulls are concerned, but any vessel older than thirty years is going to be a project boat unless someone else has already done the necessary work to defeat osmosis, rust, metal corrosion in rig or fittings or hull, or has been scrupulous in maintenence in the case of steel, which often dies from the inside of the boat not the outside.

A nice Tayana 36 would be a bit slower than some fibreglass boats because it is heavily built. They have a reasonably good resale value though--so one would not lose too much after a couple of years as long as the boat is fairly maintained--and I would be happy to sail one anywhere if the rig, instruments and hull were surveyed as sound by a reputable surveyor not in cahoots with a broker.

Then there are multihulls--really costly to berth--and fine in coastal waters. Keep an eye on the forecast and run for shelter at the first sign of a hurricane--you are in Texas, not too far away from the storm alley--

Lots of storage space in a trimaran and a reasonably large saloon space in the main hull. Nice motion--probably softer than a cat--but stop a lot more wind at anchor and tend to skate on the hook even when snubbed to a bridle.

Nowhere can you buy a sound used vessel as cheaply as in the US. There is almost nothing seaworthy under forty thousand in Oz big enough for live aboard-- which starts at thirty feet in my book. Smaller is possible--but I do like some space to stretch out in.

[Topazken]

The following is an excerpt from my upcoming book. I am not trying to sell it as it has yet to be printed but it is exactly what you need to read.

As with everything I cover in this book, everyone has opinions about what is best. There is no subject where these opinions vary as much and beliefs as strongly held as those about what kind of boat is best. There is the full keel / heavy displacement camp and they oppose the fin keel / light displacement people. You have your skeg rudder folks and the spade rudder disciples. Then, of course there is the ketch vs. sloop vs. cutter crowds. Forget all of it. Forget all of it until you fulfill the most important criteria of all and that is confidence.

There is not any characteristic of any yacht that comes anywhere close to importance as your confidence in the seaworthy nature of the boat you choose to take to sea. After any time sailing the oceans of the world, one learns that just about any yacht can make it. There are boats crossing oceans that I would not trust if they were tied to a dock. My lack of faith is irrelevant. The people sailing them have confidence and that is the most important thing. This is not to say that seaworthiness is irrelevant. It isn’t. A seaworthy boat is crucial. How many masts it has isn’t. Your confidence in your yacht is what will make the endurance of a nasty storm possible. That confidence will also free you from the fear such experiences can create and allow you to continue to point the bow seaward.

As for buget... like others have pointed out, save plenty for prepping the boat. There is not a single boat for sale that is ready to head offshore. The bigger the boat the more everything will cost. You wll need to spend about 50k. just for the stuff, more if you need to have someone install it.

[Topazken]

Mike, I am not trying to call you out but just about everything you said in your post is wrong. Have you actually sailed anywhere? It would seem to me that anyone offering advice ought to at least have some experience.

I don't know how to write this so you know the tone is a friendly one...

[forrest wind]

I helped deliver an Island Packet 38 from Seabrook, Texas to Naples, Florida a few years ago. With only one stop in Grand Isle, Louisiana, we did two multi-day/overnight stretches. Having never sailed in the Gulf before, I wasn't ready for how many Offshore Oil Rigs & and accompanying stand off mooring buoys there were headed east outta Texas. ( Just a Note here: I hate when people post nothing but all the scary things that they have experience out on the water. I'm not sure if they are still scared or just like to tell scary stories in the dark of the night. This is from the heart!) The first night out in the Gulf, we sited numerous working oil rigs that were very easy to see and avoid. They were actually kinda reassuring in the middle of now where. At about 1am my watch mate and I caught something out of the corner of our eye on the starboard side. We realized that the "Something" was a derelict oil rig that was not on the charts and had no hazard lights as required. The sea state was flat as a swimming pool, no wind and we were motoring at about 7.5 knots. There was no moonlight but, the sky was clear. We passed within 150ft, with our mouths hanging open, and noticed that the super structure cross members came down to about 40ft above the water. This thing would have cleaned off the mast at best or completely destroyed the boat at worst. The delivery Captain was down sleeping and we never discussed using the radar that had a display at the helm and nav station. I'm not sure if he was testing us less experienced crew members, just didn't think about using radar or didn't think it would be necessary. I had never used radar on any boat and only seen it working on a boat at the dock once. A few minutes later another something slid past the port side of the boat in the darkness, an 8 to 10ft round metal stand off mooring buoy that supply ships tie up to near the rigs. After pooping my pants for the second time, I figured I better figure out how to turn on the radar. I started mashing buttons and nothing short of a small miracle happened, both radar displays lit up and within a few mis-push buttons all the scary "Somethings" in our nearby world now became easy to see, track and avoid. I could'a made this post shorter but, I too like to review other people experiences and then make my own decision if the info was of use. Like my earlier post, I'm not gonna tell ya what you should do, just gonna share my 2 pennies worth and let you consider it along with all the other pennies that are flowing in via this forum. I believe your are in one of the most fun stages of the sailing experience, Wide Eyed & Bushy Tailed. Your Sail'n Buddy, Jack P. P.S. We just had radar installed on our newly purchased Hunter 38, no oil rigs in the NW waters but...!

[annegibsonwaco]

Hello, everyone! I agree, the Cal 2-46 are great boats. I would like to find one locally (Texas) so I could take a first hand look at it and get a feel for what they are like. The Cal 2-46 on Yachtworld is in BVI, so I won't be able to go see it for a few weeks. My husband is having surgery tomorrow and will be out of commission for 6 weeks. He's really bummed out about it as it puts off our sail boat hunt. He is taking his laptop with him to the hospital so we can at least look on the net.
Charlie - the Amel is a nice boat as well. We looked briefly at one at Seabrook, Texas; but, didn't seriously consider it. There were other boats around it that were more to our liking.
SteveM - Thanks for the link. I'll keep that in mind as we are looking at boats.
forrest wind - I'm with you, I believe our age prohibits us from spending 1 or 2 years fixing up a boat. Rather, in order to realize our dream, we have got to get going, so that means buying a boat that is ready to go. As it is, we are quite new to the idea of liveaboard sailing. Our only experience comes from our 20' Venture that we enjoyed for several years on fresh water. My husband sailed it in Galveston Bay once. Suffice it to say, we have MUCH to learn.

Anne

[Eleven]

Hi Anne. At 63 I'm looking to cruise the Mediteranean for a few years. Live aboard for at least six months a year and keep a tiny flat for visiting the grand childers in summer and xmas. Dearly beloved is younger than me and wants to keep working, maybe six months a year and she'll need a home base too.
We are firmly convinced that a Cat is the only way to go for a live aboard. Nobody changes their cat for a mono.
Do have a look at some of the older Prout's, they are all over the world and very good value. Most come with full Ocean Class nav and safety kit, check dates and cost repairs. I'd recommend you view:
Event 34. 34 foot, queen size beds, easy single handing (or aternate watch duties), usually with Autohelm so you can drive from inside when the weather is not hot.
These boats sail fast enough to avoid the worst of the storms if your nav and meteo are up to it and accomadation is superb. This model has two queen size in the sterns, a vee cosy double in one bow, a shower, toilet, wash wet room all sealed.
The boat is UNSINKABLE and your dinghy can be stowed, fully infated and ready to go, on the rear deck.
There is an original teak interior Snowgoose37 at Emsworth (search - multihullworld) for 50k sterling which leaves you budget to bring her up to spec. Beautifull condition, almost seems to be new though twenty five years old, faster but less space than the 2 Event 34's there at the moment. (One of them WILL be mine as soon as the house is sold). They are both at 76k sterling and only require a general service so you'll be on the water heading anywhere in the world for 100k sterling.
You'll reduce the risk considerable by not taking six tonnes of lead to sea with you.
It's nogood dreaming, and in any crew the man is a wise Captain and his partner is the Admiral in charge of overall policy and planning and keeps him happy by letting him do all the serious jobs, like sailing and mending and cleaning, except when she wants it done properly. Good Luck, Fair winds. See you out there.

[slomotion]

Cowboy Sailer,

Welcome,

I suggest you start a new thread because your interests are not quite the same as Anne’s.

For whatever it’s worth and for your intended use, the Legend 37 is a far more comfortable liveaboard platform than the Pearson. These boats were a kind of scaled down version of the early-mid 80s Legend 40s (well worth looking at) and they make excellent Gulf/Caribbean cruising boats. However, with all boats of this vintage, condition is more important than design.

And yes, a couple can live on a 34 to 38 foot sailboat - my wife and I cruised the Bahamas/Caribbean for 2+ years on an old Hunter 34. Your needs/wants/expectations are personal to you - we wouldn’t do it again without something more like the H37's aft cabin. We are 58 and although the H34 had a 'real' aft cabin, it was still a crawl in affair and we're not gonna do that anymore - the V berth was our closet/garage.

[Mike Banks]

Correction to earlier post.

Gozzard was the designer of the Bayfield 36--a fine vessel if well maintained.

Perry designed the Ta Yang 37 (Tayana)

Belief in one's vessel is a great thing and is essential. I tend to advocate extreme caution because such faith and belief must be founded in fact. Belief or just blind faith without confirmed foundation is dangerous folly, so as far as is possible with any used vessel, a meticulous survey and competent repairs to any defects is necessary for any kind of confidence in ther seaworthiness of the boat.

Similarly--a good well proven design is also a prerequisite.

I do not think I wish to change anything else in the previous post.

There are plenty of sound vessels available or those that can be rendered so. To some extent I am influenced by hearsay from competent well travelled people I know or knew who owned them and have sailed them extensively.

[Arthur E Warren]

Newbi, so here goes.
I am retired and will cruise the chesapeak this summer, then head for Alabama and try the Tenn Tom in Sept/October . Your input will help with my planning.
Thanks Art