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Old 27-07-2010, 13:40   #46
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Dockhead said,
I recently made a 62 mile passage under sail in 7 3/4 hours. No extravagant wind; just a nice beam reach in 15 to 18 knots of north wind with every scrap of sail up, barely even heeling, knocking back the miles one after another. It was so hypnotically beautiful that one crew member just went below and slept.

Magicial times and the best part of sailing. You just can't count on that.

Recently, I did the math for Highlanders average speed (dist/eng hrs) over the last 23,000. Nm, about 15 Kts. Not too many doldrums there.
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Old 27-07-2010, 13:49   #47
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Dockhead said,
I recently made a 62 mile passage under sail in 7 3/4 hours. No extravagant wind; just a nice beam reach in 15 to 18 knots of north wind with every scrap of sail up, barely even heeling, knocking back the miles one after another. It was so hypnotically beautiful that one crew member just went below and slept.

Magicial times and the best part of sailing. You just can't count on that.

Recently, I did the math for Highlanders average speed (dist/eng hrs) over the last 23,000. Nm, about 15 Kts. Not too many doldrums there.
Well, good for you, but it's not a speed competition. My post was an answer to the statement that sailboats make 2 knots VMG. We do somewhat better than that.

Unlike many sailors, I don't feel any antagonism to power boats. I love internal combustion engines. In the winter time, I put a couple thousand km a year on a snowmobile. The skiers look at me kind of the way sailors often look at powerboaters.

But on the ocean I wouldn't trade two hours of being swept silently along by the wind, for one hour of grinding along under power.
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Old 27-07-2010, 14:50   #48
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But on the ocean I wouldn't trade two hours of being swept silently along by the wind, for one hour of grinding along under power.
if you have a Rolls engine, you'll never hear it.
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Old 27-07-2010, 15:21   #49
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if you have a Rolls engine, you'll never hear it.
The smallest Rolls marine engine, a 1.2 megawatt two-stroke diesel of 750rpm class, is unlikely to be encountered on a trawler anywhere.
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Old 27-07-2010, 15:37   #50
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Well, I think you're right about cost. Sails and rigging are d*mned expensive and you can buy a lot of fuel for what they cost per mile.
Totally agree

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But you're not right about range. Length of a passage is a much, much bigger issue for a power boat than it is for a sailboat. I would far prefer to be in the middle of the ocean on a sailboat, than on a powerboat. You can really go to the ends of the earth on a sailboat. In a powerboat you're sweating over your fuel computer.
Really?
How many yachts cross oceans...Not many, most coastal hop and Island hop, legs are usually no more than several hundred miles to a thousand at a time.

Get an economic powerboat and the issue is a non issue

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As to speed, until you get into superyacht territory, the practical, long-distance cruising speed of even a big power boat is not more than double or so that if a comparable size sailboat.
I have read many articles and spoken to delivery skippers of large powered vessels say that sea state usually dictates the speed.
The fast boats get throttled back to approx. 8-10 knots, so best to have a boat that does that speed very efficiently.
Smaller engines, lower cost, much less fuel used, much less tankage needed.

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So for long distances a sailboat is way better.
Arguably

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Ton for ton a sailboat will be more seaworthy too.
Bullshit
It depends on the vessel
Plenty of rotten/ rusty death-trap keelboats that weigh more than my powercat


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But really -- sail versus power is not worth much analysis.
Sure it is, I put plenty of analysis into making my decision to go power over sail this time, believe me, I prefer sail, but the numbers did not stack up at all.
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It's 99% a matter of what turns you on, anyway, and to h*ll with the practical aspects of it. No one is going to buy a power boat because sails are expensive, I reckon.
Thats exactly why I went power over sail
Pointless having an expensive bag of rag and a mast + deck hardware if you plan on cruising areas that predominately have either heavy wind (so in port or behind an island) or very light to zero wind (so motoring anyway)
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Old 27-07-2010, 16:16   #51
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When a sailboat is under power (better than 50% for most)
all you have is a really bad powerboat.

Sorry, just can't help it.
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Old 27-07-2010, 17:00   #52
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I read somewhere, it may have been on here, that sail boats spend better than 60% of the time using their 'iron sail'. That didn't square with how I sailed but there again I was always broke in those days. So sailing people, how often do you have the motor running? I've certainly noticed a lot of people who use their engine rather than beat to wind.

P.
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Old 27-07-2010, 18:35   #53
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I was thinking this today also fishwife. Sailors who say they never use their engines also tell really good fishing stories
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Old 27-07-2010, 19:23   #54
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It sounds like there are multiple issues here. #1 a save money live aboard-In that case a motor boat esp. if we are talking small boat 30 ft more livable out of the (deep tunnel) room of typical 30 ft sail boat. #2 cost of maint. that has too many variables I have done sail(more than a dozen)-slow trawler motor-fast motor and multi- and the cost of upkeep depends on the individual boat and its use more than type of boat. #3 a long distance boat-here unless you have a lot of money to burn and are a good mechanic you should think sail.
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Old 27-07-2010, 19:41   #55
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#3 a long distance boat-here unless you have a lot of money to burn and are a good mechanic you should think sail.
Like in your #2 comment, it depends on the boat......intended cruising grounds and purpose

average cruising sail boat (mono) where second hand sails are common is cheaper than highspeed gin palace, I'll give you that

But average cruising fuel efficient trawler speed motorboat can be cheaper than similar sized performance orientated sailing vessel (when considering cost of rig, sails, winches and life of)
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Old 27-07-2010, 21:25   #56
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I consider a sailing catamaran to be a good power boat as well. With two engines it can make respectable speed when there is no wind.

I always regarded Exit Only, our Privilege 39 catamaran, to be an excellent motorsailer. We did a lot of motoring in the Mediterannean - We motored about half way across the Med because there was no wind.
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Old 27-07-2010, 22:05   #57
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I think you hit the nail on the head with the motor sailor function of many of the modern big cats-these boats seem to combine the qualities of liveaboard houseboat and motor sailor and it seems for many people who can aford them a good match.There is a lot of talk about sailing performance often generated from sales pitch-more often I see these boats under power when conditions are not optimal(often). A few cats have been built with emphasis on motor sailor ability with power options allowing for speed into the teens and moderate sail ability.
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Old 27-07-2010, 22:25   #58
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THE LIVEABOARD REPORT

I have refered to this many times here. Now I'm going to try and at least paraphrase what I found very helpful.

Firtst of all, pick up a copy of "The Liveaboard Report". Google it .It was written by a statustician/boater. He simply interviewed livaboards and entered data.

One of the qquestions he asked was MONTHLY EXPENSES. He was getting responses in the + - $1,200 range. One of the few power boats he interviewed said $13,000. The interviewer assumed he was quoting a yearly amount. He divided $13,000 by 12 month and came up with $1083 per month. Then he said something like, "so your monthly figure is about average with the sailboats". The owner then said someting like, "No, you asked monthly expenses, I reported montly expenses".

The interviewer dropped powerboats from the list as I recall.
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Old 27-07-2010, 22:46   #59
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One of the few power boats he interviewed said $13,000.
One example does not an accurate assessment make

I could go and ask this guy



whether or not sailing boats are economical liveaboards and what do you think the answer would be?

Should I then hold that up as proof?
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Old 27-07-2010, 23:08   #60
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"One example does not an accurate assessment make"

Sometimes I have to temper my remarks when I read someting like that.

I'm certain I left out words like "comparable" that would better illustrate the authors point. But throwing in an "extreme" would not work very well for the averages he was trying to put together.

"Should I then hold that up as proof?"

Do you feel the need to prove something? I wasn't. I was just offering some advice I found useful.
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