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Old 21-12-2011, 22:25   #1
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Hello from Texans in France

Hello all just wanted to say hello and keep up the great posts. Have been reading all the stuff here for the last 4 weeks and even watched all the videos in the library.
Re the multihull post on offering 30% less I visited a marina to buy my fiancée a boat so it would be sitting in one of the mooring spots we have on a Lake here in Texas when we closed on our new home and wanted her to look out the deck and see a used sailboat there for her. As I am a widower marrying a widow we are starting our new life together in a new home where we didn’t live with our previous spouse. My boat experience was almost nil except for crewing several Mackinac Races and how tough is it to open a twist cap on a bottle of beer! LOL! My fiancée has been an ASA sailing instructor for 36 years and loves Catalina sloops so I bought her a Hunter Center Cockpit! Duh! There is a difference???
Visited with the current owner and to be fair on our dealing I picked up the phone, put it on speaker and called my bank and asked them what the wholesale value of the boat was...i.e. the amount they would lend against it even though we were cash buyers. They gave me a $4,000 range more than 35% below the marina’s asking price. I offered cash on the spot splitting the 4k in half. He wanted to think about it and call me back the next day. Never heard from him so his wife called a week later and was told he had died of a heart attack. His wife wanted to know if I was still interested. No was my answer as in the interim we had visited Hunter and had been at the ARC Rally for 2 days and from talking with the cruisers there multihulls were the way they suggested. She asked me to give her an offer anyway so I offered 20% and she took it. I had the money wired to her and had the boat pulled out and moved to our farm. Was too good a deal to pass up as it has completed a circumnavigation and had tons of blue water gear but we have to rename it and keep the previous owners details private per her wishes. Great deal 20 cents on the wholesale dollar.
Since the day before Thanksgiving when we closed on our new home we have visited the Hunter factory, went to the 3 days leading up to the ARC Rally, toured 9 of the Jeanneau/Beneteau/CNB factories and attended the Paris Boat show for almost 3 days. We also got engaged! We are in France for the holidays, and then have 2 charters on different yachts we are interested in before attending the London Boat Show. I have been retired for awhile and my fiancée retired the day before Thanksgiving. We are visiting another brands factory in France and Italy this week. After the London show we have plans to visit 3 South African factories and then on to Xiamen, China for the last one on our list unless more good suggestions arise. We had considered buying a 3-8 year old boat in the 87 to 114 range but finally decided that is just like going for a ride and letting the crew do the work so we want something in a multihull that can be sailed by a couple or singlehanded if one of us is sick. Most of the time our 6 kids all in college/grad school or our friends will be sailing with us via major stop to next major stop so we need speed and comfort, safety and cargo capacity. Willing to consider green but thanks to this forum you blew Tang off the consideration sheet as many of the errors you exposed/highlighted were as basic as to be unbelievable to me as a former electrical engineer among other things. We want the adventure of doing this together as a couple and many of the stops I have planned are out of the way, small islands where lp, gas, and sometimes even good diesel will be hard to come by per my research so far.
We are probably looking for something in the 57 to 78 ft range and cabin height is an issue as our kids are 6’5”. 6’6”, 2 @ 6’7”. We are only 6’0” and 5’9” for my fiancée. Also have crossed off 2 boats that got very nice reviews from forum members as they had kitchen down which is a safety hazard am unwilling to accept. What am I supposed to do slide the hot pans across the floor to the table and then pick them up? Am not climbing stairs or a ladder carrying hot pans!! The focal point of both our marriages was talking while one cooked via kitchen/family room/ Nav station setup (saloon). Will listen and my account will accept private emails on this issue. (Factor)
We can easily afford a new Gunboat and that is our last factory stop but is it the best overall fit for us and that is what I hope to learn from you, the forum members. We hope to purchase a new boat by mid March 2012.
Thanking you in advance,
John & Carol
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Old 21-12-2011, 22:45   #2
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

Aloha and welcome aboard!
Good to have you here and posting.
Congratulations on the new boat and bride.
kind regards,
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Old 21-12-2011, 23:42   #3
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

and someone "tried to crawl my a$$ on cf about calling widows and asking if a boat might be for sale....you got'em calling you after a week...hell I would of waited a few months at least...good luck with her..DVC
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Old 22-12-2011, 00:32   #4
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

John,FreeFlow Catamarans

Welcome and best wishes on your vessel purchase. I don't think you would want anything over 50ft.

Check out the Freeflow52 and FF46 both new generation designs. Both would be big enough and there are 2x 52's being built in China now if you are visiting there under supervision of Australian builder.

1st 46 in in the water at Gold Coast now. My use will be similar to yours with guests and set up for diving and 46 is more than large enough

FreeFlow Catamarans

To be able to take delivery mid march 2012 you would most likely have to purchase a built vessel or one nearly finished. There are apparently a few French Outremer 49's, of recent build and of modern design available second hand.

2010 Outremer 49 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Was some discussion on another thread suggesting asking too much but worth $700000 +

Looking foward to seeing which vessel you choose.

Cheers
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Old 22-12-2011, 03:51   #5
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

Welcome aboard the CF, John & Carol. Hope your dreams come true this year. I'll echo Downunder's recommendation of 50ft or less...a boat that can be handled easily by 2 and doesn't prevent you from getting everywhere you want to be. Happy sailing!
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Old 22-12-2011, 10:40   #6
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

Quote:
Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
and someone "tried to crawl my a$$ on cf about calling widows and asking if a boat might be for sale....you got'em calling you after a week...hell I would of waited a few months at least...good luck with her..DVC
DVC,
Would never had called her back as we had decided just 2 hours earlier while @ ARC that a monohull was out and faster, smaller draft multihull was in. Told her "No" 3 times so finally gave up and just shot her a number that she accepted to my surprise. We are having the boat "winterized" today for a 3-4 yr drydock under roof out of the elements. When we get back from our world cruise will refit her and put her out on the inland Lake we live on for daily/weekend use.
Do not see anything wrong with being proactive and you calling someone to see if they wish to get rid of their former spouse's boat! My son found 2 albums of pics in the boat of her and him and told him to call her and ask if she wanted them dropped off @ her home. She told him "throw them in the trash as that part of my life is over and do not want any reminders!" So it appears I did her a favor buying the boat.
Thanks for the email.
John & Carol
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Old 22-12-2011, 10:48   #7
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Cruiser View Post
DVC,
Would never had called her back as we had decided just 2 hours earlier while @ ARC that a monohull was out and faster, smaller draft multihull was in. Told her "No" 3 times so finally gave up and just shot her a number that she accepted to my surprise. We are having the boat "winterized" today for a 3-4 yr drydock under roof out of the elements. When we get back from our world cruise will refit her and put her out on the inland Lake we live on for daily/weekend use.
Do not see anything wrong with being proactive and you calling someone to see if they wish to get rid of their former spouse's boat! My son found 2 albums of pics in the boat of her and him and told him to call her and ask if she wanted them dropped off @ her home. She told him "throw them in the trash as that part of my life is over and do not want any reminders!" So it appears I did her a favor buying the boat.
Thanks for the email.
John & Carol
Chances are unless both were equally motivated to be on the water, she just wants the headache off of her back. The boat will be dumped on the first person that comes along for any amount of money.

Who's to say what is a fair price, when for the seller the object has zero value.
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Old 22-12-2011, 13:20   #8
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
John,FreeFlow Catamarans

Welcome and best wishes on your vessel purchase. I don't think you would want anything over 50ft.

Check out the Freeflow52 and FF46 both new generation designs. Both would be big enough and there are 2x 52's being built in China now if you are visiting there under supervision of Australian builder.

1st 46 in in the water at Gold Coast now. My use will be similar to yours with guests and set up for diving and 46 is more than large enough

FreeFlow Catamarans

To be able to take delivery mid march 2012 you would most likely have to purchase a built vessel or one nearly finished. There are apparently a few French Outremer 49's, of recent build and of modern design available second hand.

2010 Outremer 49 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Was some discussion on another thread suggesting asking too much but worth $700000 +

Looking foward to seeing which vessel you choose.

Cheers
Downunder,
Thanks for the excellent reply. I sent an info request per your recommendation. I saw that other thread and apx 725 not just over a mil would have seemed fair to me at a quick glance. While at ARC where we changed from monohull to multihull based on crew recommendations from the many great people we meet there for money and value the most recommended boat they would purchase was the Outremer 49. Second the Outremer 45. Third the Lagoon 46. We have chartered time on an Outremer 49 and a Lagoon 46 in the next few weeks to see how actually living aboard and sailing these boats works out. When you take money i.e. cost and depreciation out of the equation and just use speed, looks, and fun Gunboat wins hands down based on the people we talked to. If they could that is what most would do. Having sailed as a crew member for decades on the Great Lakes (am from Chicago) have learned 4 basic sailing rules that I remember and wish to practice:
1) Beer cans crush easier than beer bottles.
2) Always hook your head up to a potable fresh water system!
3) After a week of cruising the most needed appliance to keep your crew happy is a functioning washer/dryer
4) There is never too many heads or enough space. After touring onboard an Outremer 49 & 45 and a Lagoon 46 we were concerned about the lack of space available. Most of the time we will have 2 other couples and 2 college students with us. We can all agree on Adele but I can't stand rap-useless noise-and they (3 of my 4 sons) can't stand my opera. So we all need our own space to peacefully co-exist. After ARC our mutual concern was the lack of space/privacy we perceived on the 49/45 & 46 ft boats. We are still going to charter them as scheduled and see if it is ok on space as all 6 kids are joining us on the Outremer 49. The week will tell! LOL!
The extra expense of the larger boat is meaningless to us for the additional speed and comfort, supplies and spares we can carry. We carry a lot of scuba toys when we go out in our 31ft powerboat in the Caymans. 6 -12 scuba tanks, scuba compressor, 10 wetsuit gear setups in different sizes, 2 floating compressor wheels-1elec & 1 gas and a third for on board with 200ft of hoses. All 10 have full face masks and radio communications plus we have another from underwater to the boat so all can talk with one another which is a blast. We also have 2 underwater “air bubble” sea cycles so you can ride underwater without tanks in an enclosed Plexiglas bubble. Way cool. Kids want 2 more but the weight/space is huge. Throw in the wind & kite surfing rigs, wakeboards and water skis and I am seriously worried about overloading a 45-50ft boat. 60 would mean more cargo capacity and happier kids and hence happier parents. Do not forget all the fishing and spear fishing gear either.
We do not need to order a partially completed boat as our goal is to purchase the correct boat for us and have paid the deposit by March 17, 2012, my brother’s birthday and a private bet between us deadline. Deposit is enough to win for me. If it takes 6-8 months to get a new boat that is ok as will be taking sailing classes and learning how all the electronics and systems work. Once we get our new boat we plan to just sail for 4-6 weeks very hard and fast in the area of the factory to work out any bugs so they can be corrected before we shove off on our cruise. We plan on sending all our gear & supplies via a sea container to the factory so we can load it aboard during our sea trials and shakedown under full load. Will write same into contract. Oversimplified that is our current working plan. We do have a rather large operating budget for this trip. Figure 1/3 for the boat, 1/3 for operating expenses (probably high), & 1/3 for gifts to send home.
Realize just asking current boatowners isn't exactly scientific as it only covers the people we personally talked to/with.
Downunder, if you were me what would you do different or to improve upon what we are trying to do?
Thanks, John & Carol
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Old 22-12-2011, 16:41   #9
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

Hi John and Carol,

Thanks for your detailed reply.

You certainly seem to be doing your research well chartering those vessels and you will know when you find the vessel for you.

I can see why you are looking for a largish vessel with all your equipt.

The FF 52 is a proberbly equilivant to most 55ft vessels. The designer/builder Nathan Stanton's phone number is on his website and he is very approachable. He previously was a partner in Lightwave catamarans which build 38 & 45ft catamarans. I think it may be worth you while looking at the 52 in China if you get a chance and I am sure it can be arranged and worthwhile


From time to time I have seen advertised a Morelli & Melvine 55-60ft (same designer as gunboat) built somewnere in States which would be worth a look. Again a high end vessel.
You could talk to Gino Morelli re custom vessel - could be worthwhile.

http://www.morrellimelvin.com

This is website for a 50ft M & M built in NZ 11 yrs ago and cruising everywhere since.

http://www.adagiomarine.com/ and Adagio Journal | SmugMug

Couple of new 55ft cats underway by multimarine UK

http://multimarine.co.uk/

Link to Gary Lidgard a designer at Gold Coast, Australia who has quite a few cat designs. Is designer of Fusion 40. I think I saw this 53/55 below for sale.
http://www.lidgarddesign.com/rM53_sailingCat.html

Cheers,
John
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Old 23-12-2011, 04:20   #10
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

you might want to check out palma de majorca,spain
lots of millionaires toys with all the kit at fire sale prices on the market due to very high dockage fees there.
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Old 23-12-2011, 10:22   #11
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Re: Hello from Texans in France

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you might want to check out palma de majorca,spain
lots of millionaires toys with all the kit at fire sale prices on the market due to very high dockage fees there.
Thanks Atoll,
Saw this while at the airport in Italy after visiting a boatyard here and checked it out online. We found 3 we liked, called a broker, emailed him a LOC, and he got us 2 confirmed apts. for in the morning and will work on the 3rd one we wanted to see. We are leaving in about 30 min as soon as they are done refueling. 2 of these do look like fire sale prices but must inspect to make sure. We have to be back @ my future father-in-laws tomorrow night in France for Christmas Eve but am happy that we could sneak this trip in. Thanks again.
John & Carol
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