Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-10-2010, 19:47   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Hello Everyone - We'd Like Your Opinion

Hi there our names are dave and lisa.

We would just like to say we have been reading this forum for a little while now and think its fantastic... well done.

We are married for 10 years and are both in our mid 30's and have been living in Perth Australia on and off for 10 years.

After a recent incident we have decided that as nice as life here is we want to pack up and move onto a boat and become full time cruisers. We don't have kids and are not planning on ever having any (we are just that selfish :-) )

So we have a budget of around $200K. And have careers that are transportable around the world.

We are both very green to sailing but have joined a local club and have just done our competent crew course. And we are booked to do our full rya yacht masters out of Gibraltar next may for 14 weeks.

What we need is advise on how to proceed. The key features that we want from a boat is value but comfortable enough to go anywhere (literally i want to see the high latitudes) and live on board full time. We would like something that holds its value and easy to sail. I personally like to idea of a motor sailer.

Might be asking a bit much i know, but we're very motivated.

So we've been looking at boats around the world and figured maybe if we purchased the right one hiring an experienced skipper to help sail it back to Australia with us.

Can anyone give us advise on the pit falls of our plan. The guys at the local club said get a cheap small boat first and learn to sail it, but to be honest that seems like a huge waist of time and money..


thank you guys and keep it up
__________________

__________________
Osirian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 20:19   #2
Registered User
 
Hans and Laura's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chesapeake
Boat: Island Packet Cat, 35 ft, Knotty Cat
Posts: 41
I have a feeling when I look at this thread next week there are going to be about a thousand posts with a thousand different opinions! So I'll jump in with my 2 cents worth now. Why spend the time and money on a small boat first? Dear God! What a waste of time and money, we've had our boat for 2 years and we're still trying to get used to it (along with equipping it with what we want). If you're thinking about a motor sail, then check them out! We have a catamaran because I like the comfortable 'non heeling' sail and it has tons of room. I think deep down Hans would like a monohull (his last boat was a 42' Passport) but if he wants me to sail with him then it's a catamaran all the way. Keep in mind what it is you want, ie; hot water? refrigeration? is a nice galley important? and go from there. Money wise, if you can work off your boat then you're in good shape. Somehow things always work out!! Don't waste too much time, and just go for it.
__________________

Hans and Laura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 21:03   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 27
Hi
Try and buy a boat that is cruise ready else the extras will be hard on your budget. My wife and I have had bigger boats but do fine now with 38 feet. I would suggest that 34 feet is a minimum for two although others do fine with less. If you really want to travel distance get a solid blue water boat that sails well. Motorsailers tend to have compromises that limit their sailing ability. When you finish your yacht masters you will have a much better idea of what you would like.
Cheers
Larry
__________________
Larry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 21:16   #4
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Charter cost...

It may be possible to trailer a boat up to 22' without much difficulty (watch out for overhead power lines), and 22' trailer sailers are not that expensive.

It could be possible to do most of your practice in closed (sheltered) waters. Do always check the weather forecast (not over 15 knots at first?).

And you can sell it when you've finished.

There has been some discussion along those lines on this Forum, and there's always room for a bit more...

Have you checked the cost of charters and sailing schools?
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 21:21   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,372
I second the recommendation to get a sailboat that motors well instead of a motorsailor. Perhaps you don't realize that in the boating world a motorsailor is generally a rather large, usually sort of fat sailboat with a relatively small mast. The sailing performance is just ok so for long distance sailing you will be slow, not sail very close to the wind and use a lot of fuel.

You can easily find a sailboat that sails well but also has a good motor and sufficient fuel to power a long distance.

On the other hand, a motorsailor can be more roomy than a similar sized sailboat. One other consideration, motorsailors often have large windows which can be a safety concern if sailing in high latitudes.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 21:25   #6
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

Hi and welcome... well your off to a good start with the clue in the high latitude ambitions... its gonna have to be steel I reckon and with a good engine and sailing capabity... some of the best places to check out are Holland, France and Germany... they've done some nice steel boats.
At todays rate that'd give you around 140000euros to play with.... well 100K or a bit under 'maybe'.... can get you something like this
Boats for sale Lithuania, Used boat sales, Sailing Yachts For Sale BAYCLASS TABLE BAY 40 - Apollo Duck or if you want a tad cheaper try this...
Feltz Boats for sale France, Feltz Used boat sales, Feltz Sailing Yachts For Sale 1994 FELTZ Scorpion1200 95000 euros - Apollo Duck

Good on ya both and good luck in the 'mission'.... keep us posted..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 21:39   #7
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Welcome to the forum! Not all motorsailers are fat and do not sail well. I would suggest that you try to get on as many different boats as possible, to determine what you don't want as well as what you want. My Father always said:"These deals are a lot easier to get into, than to get out of.".
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 21:57   #8
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
the more you venture into high latitudes, the more you'll appreciate a pilot house. (Be aware that not all boats with pilot houses are "motorsailors.") the more you venture into the tropics, the more you'll appreciate an open cockpit.

all boats are compromises. the biggest mistake is to buy a boat designed to go places it will never go. shoal draft makes no sense in the Southern Ocean, just as a deep keel is out of place in the Bahamas. Likewise, the pilot house that is invaluable in Alaska is going to seem a bit goofy in Central America.

welcome to the forum, regardless of whether you end up in a motorsailor.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 23:03   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Ahhh you see five minutes in and I'm already getting great help you guys rock.

Think I need clarify the motor sailer thing though. Basically we have no idea at the moment but we saw this ATOA 64 - Expedition aluminium motorsailer boat for unlimited worldwide cruising from Arctic to Antarctic and thought it looked awesome. But then realized we were about 600k short so that put that to the sword.

I think we just want some ideas on what's going to suite us for the first five years or so.
__________________
Osirian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-10-2010, 23:58   #10
Registered User
 
SurferShane's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NSW AUSTRALIA
Boat: L. Francis Herreshoff Ketch
Posts: 1,129
Images: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
So we've been looking at boats around the world and figured maybe if we purchased the right one hiring an experienced skipper to help sail it back to Australia with us.

Can anyone give us advise on the pit falls of our plan. The guys at the local club said get a cheap small boat first and learn to sail it, but to be honest that seems like a huge waist of time and money..


thank you guys and keep it up
The way the Aussie dollar is being tipped to out value the American dollar this is not a bad idea. Heaps of great bargains in America and many places elsewhere where the sale contracts are in $US (Thailand and sometimes Europe?). I have to admit I am a sucker for the Gozzards; Canadian boats that are usually outfitted with heaters for the colder climate. You will find many similar boats in Northern America.

One other thing I would mention is that even with a 200k AUS budget you will be amazed how fast this money will disappear. My advice would be to buy something conservatively priced that is well-outfitted and easily sailed by a couple. There are heaps of “classic” cruising boats not more than 30ft that you can realistically live comfortably on. Try not to fall into the trap of buying something 50’ that looks like a floating house and could soon have you back to work. Noting costs are generally agreed to increase exponentially with the length of a boat.

After reading Rob Mundles “Fatal Storm” about the 1998 Sydney to Hobart I would also be steering well clear of most production boats and anything else that might “implode”. (Heaps of threads and advice on here about solid bluewater boats). Likewise, it is good advice to get in an read a heap of literature about cruising and sailing written from a few different perspectives before you make you investment. (Hey, at least books are getting cheaper by the minute on Amazon US!). If you can get up to speed on seamanship and meteorology you might even be able to circumnavigate without the paranoia of meeting one of those “fatal storms”.
__________________
Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. - Voltaire
SurferShane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2010, 00:29   #11
Registered User
 
SurferShane's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NSW AUSTRALIA
Boat: L. Francis Herreshoff Ketch
Posts: 1,129
Images: 45
A question that might be thrown back onto you is if you enjoy camping or are the kind of people who only stay in five star resorts? If you are the former your funds will probably get you around the world a few times. The later and I would be looking to least doubling the 200K budget?
__________________
Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. - Voltaire
SurferShane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2010, 00:43   #12
Registered User
 
missaussierules's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kelowna, BC
Boat: 34 Catalina Mk II - Aussie Rules
Posts: 20
FIRSTLY.....GOOD on ya !!! My Partner is an aussie and has been sailing his whole life on one boat or another. We are gearing up to sail to Aus, from British Columbia, Canada. 2-3 more years to have my stepson grow up enough that we can ditch, and we'll be outta here. We are in our 40's and think your goal of just going for it is fantastic. You've certainly got the right idea. If we didn't have the boy....we'd be gone too! We have a Catalina 34 Mark II, as in a newer model, a 1998. We bought it a year and a half ago, as a hurricane survivor, in an online auction, for 22K us ! Afterwards, we found out that the assessor thought it would have gone for at least double that....but the market ...and the number of boats that wind up damaged after all the storms...well, we got a smokin deal. The boat had little real damage, with tons of scratches, and dings and scrapes in the bottom and sides. We and our crew put hundreds of man hours, and lots of new stainless steel screws, and various parts....we figure we've got about 50K into it now and it appraised for over 90K. We're planning on taking it offshore, even though it is a production boat....we've seen how thick it is, and heard the tales of it punching holes into all the other boats in the marina it was in, and sinking them. It was the only boat floating in the marina, at the end of it all.

We think you should look at tons of boats, get a feel for the size you can manage to live with and the words above...the bigger the boat...the bigger the sails, sheets....winches...it goes on and on. $$$$$. Good luck....look far and choose wisely!
__________________
missaussierules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2010, 02:50   #13
Registered User
 
SurferShane's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NSW AUSTRALIA
Boat: L. Francis Herreshoff Ketch
Posts: 1,129
Images: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Hi and welcome... well your off to a good start with the clue in the high latitude ambitions... its gonna have to be steel I reckon and with a good engine and sailing capabity... some of the best places to check out are Holland, France and Germany... they've done some nice steel boats...,,,
I totally agree: I have been checking out some of the Dutch steel boats via ads in Classic Boat and there are some incredible boats getting around Northern Europe. Most have been built to Northern Sea standards and out-fitted for cold climates and many are “bargains” (as per “The Castle”).

I know the following boat is way out of the price bracket and the common opinion on this forum is even further against wood boats than it is steel; however you really have to love the interior. Looks to me like the next best thing to sitting in a hut in the mountains in front of an open fire?

http://www.blaamannseilas.no/blaamann_fotogalleri.htm

By the way, I was reading Wooden Boat magazine and you can actually still buy pot belly stoves for boats. This is also what I am hinting at when I gave the advice about reading from a few different perspectives and asked whether the poster enjoyed camping. It would be so boring if everyone sailed the same boats and courses?
__________________
Life is a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. - Voltaire
SurferShane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2010, 03:05   #14
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Your plan sounds reasonable. I would suggest leaving yourself options as long as possible as the more you learn the more your choices will change / improve (for your wants / needs).

Plenty of merit in starting with a small boat - but can see that a couple of years fannying around with one doesn't fit in with your timescale. cost? overall probably very little - if you also factor in the learning that will save you cash / time on a later boat. Big or small first boat, much the same fundamental learning curve involved - just some of the details differ...........but no one right way for everyone. otherwise it would be a very dull pastime

Whilst I understand the attraction of starting the "big adventure" asap, the boating side of things is as much about the journey as the arrival - enjoy the learning curve process, whether that be the time pre-boat purchase and / or pre-set off somewhere "exciting". Remember, that wherever you are in the world odds are that someone has sailed half way around the world to get there. and more have only ever dreamed of doing so. You've already arrived.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2010, 03:12   #15
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Hi guys

Good luck with it.

Perhpas have a look at the boats in Gibralter when you are there. They would be far more representative of cruising boats than what you would generally find in Perth.




Mark
PS Now watch someone say how wrong I am! LOLOL
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WHAT'S YOUR OPINION windthief Marine Electronics 11 03-11-2013 18:58
Opinion Needed JusDreaming Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 5 04-12-2009 07:36
Opinion Question - Which Would You Do? Thegirlis Monohull Sailboats 40 05-07-2009 10:40
need an opinion please uncle_fred General Sailing Forum 1 11-03-2009 15:19
Everyone has an opinion. 29cascadefixer General Sailing Forum 1 28-09-2003 10:20



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.