Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

......

I don't care who you are if I am out in the world and carrying you would be the last to know. Unless all Americans are automatically assumed to be carrying then I gues you "would know"

Interesting....
Now I have met quite a few visiting Americans in Australia and I am pretty sure none of them were carrying concealed firearms.

As you correctly point out, I wouldn't actually know unless they told me and I have never thought to ask. Perhaps I should raise the question next time.

Of course, it would also be surprising that these otherwise nice people would lie to me and presumably to customs et al.

[Coops]

It also seems sort of a contradiction to be constantly saying, almost yelling even, that it is their right to bear arms, but then suggest that they would keep quiet about it if they had actually exercised that right.

You can rationalise anything to achieve the desired result in your mind I guess.

Coops.

[jimking100]

Coops... One sure can "rationalize anything". It is not a contradiction, I carry but would not tell anyone because one never knows what the recipient will do with that information. There are a lot of "anti-gun" people out there and I am very careful about what information I will share.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by NoTies

I would have thought the non law abiding gun toters would have been the ones to keep quiet as they are doing something to be ashamed off. I would expect law abiding gun toters to use the deterrent value of knowing they are armed to preclude the need to actually kill someone. A sort on mini M.A.D.

Thinking that criminals are "ashamed" of their actions just goes to show you haven't studied criminal psychology or been the victim of a criminal.

People that legally possess guns do not use their guns to "deter" criminals because that can in itself make them a target. Whether it be to try to steal the gun or eliminate the opposition to their crime. If you were to rob a bank who do you shoot first? The guard who is your only threat. You dont shoot the quiet meek looking patron that doesn't loom threatening. Gun owners want to come off as that meek patron for 2 reasons. One so they have the element of surprise and 2 so they are not the initial target.

And coops it is not rationalizing or contradicting anything. I dont expect you to understand. If you've never been around guns it is natural to be afraid of them. I yell about it on here to get a point across. In the real world you wouldn't know me from any other stranger so you wouldn't know I had anything on-board. To you and your fellow country men I would portray myself as a typically tourist. Aside from my good looks I wouldn't stand out in a crowd. I keep my guns secret so I dont become a target and so any potential criminal has their guard down.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by jimking100

Coops... One sure can "rationalize anything". It is not a contradiction, I carry but would not tell anyone because one never knows what the recipient will do with that information. There are a lot of "anti-gun" people out there and I am very careful about what information I will share.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Yep, Im with ya. Got a watch them 'anti gun types'.

They can be sneaky and unpredictable, and who knows what they might have on em.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

Thinking that criminals are "ashamed" of their actions just goes to show you haven't studied criminal psychology or been the victim of a criminal.

People that legally possess guns do not use their guns to "deter" criminals because that can in itself make them a target.

And coops it is not rationalizing or contradicting anything. I dont expect you to understand. If you've never been around guns it is natural to be afraid of them. I yell about it on here to get a point across.

I've misunderstood something, if you don't carry for a 'deterrent' to crime, what do you carry guns in board for?

Da! Got it, fishing.

As a person who used to hunt for all our families red meat in the 80's and 90's I don't think I'd say I'm scared of guns, but without doubt I'm really scared by some of the people who carry guns. Some of the news stories coming out of that greatest of gun crazy nations is enough to scare anyone.

[NoTies]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

Thinking that criminals are "ashamed" of their actions just goes to show you haven't studied criminal psychology or been the victim of a criminal.
I may not be much of a student of criminal psychology but I do OK at reading comprehension. Doing something to be ashamed of does not mean being ashamed

People that legally possess guns do not use their guns to "deter" criminals because that can in itself make them a target. Whether it be to try to steal the gun or eliminate the opposition to their crime. If you were to rob a bank who do you shoot first? The guard who is your only threat. You dont shoot the quiet meek looking patron that doesn't loom threatening. Gun owners want to come off as that meek patron for 2 reasons. One so they have the element of surprise and 2 so they are not the initial target.

And coops it is not rationalizing or contradicting anything. I dont expect you to understand. If you've never been around guns it is natural to be afraid of them. I yell about it on here to get a point across. In the real world you wouldn't know me from any other stranger so you wouldn't know I had anything on-board. To you and your fellow country men I would portray myself as a typically tourist. Aside from my good looks I wouldn't stand out in a crowd. I keep my guns secret so I dont become a target and so any potential criminal has their guard down.

So, better to kill someone (possibly innocent) than rely on avoidance or deterence?

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I've misunderstood something, if you don't carry for a 'deterrent' to crime, what do you carry guns in board for?

As a last resort should every other preventitve method fail.

I dont get how its hard to understand that if criminals know you have guns it makes you a target. Having them and nobody knowing gives you an upper hand should things go horribly wrong. Case in point 2 years ago a new jersey town published a map of every gun owner in the town. Guess what happened crime rose drastically. But only on the homes that had guns so they could steal them. But why you ask they should have run scared guns are a deterrent? No they are a last line of defense. You keep quiet. Avoid problems and only go to your gun when it comes down to your life or theirs.

If you think guns scare away people then why dont you advertise like you do have one? By your logic that will keep you safe as can be. In fact please do because thats one more advertised target that isn't me.

[Coxswain]

Will this thread ever die?

[Coxswain]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I've misunderstood something, if you don't carry for a 'deterrent' to crime, what do you carry guns in board for?

Da! Got it, fishing.

As a person who used to hunt for all our families red meat in the 80's and 90's I don't think I'd say I'm scared of guns, but without doubt I'm really scared by some of the people who carry guns. Some of the news stories coming out of that greatest of gun crazy nations is enough to scare anyone.

Well Said mate!

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Coxswain

Will this thread ever die?

NEVARRRRR!!!

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

As a last resort should every other preventitve method fail.

I dont get how its hard to understand that if criminals know you have guns it makes you a target. Having them and nobody knowing gives you an upper hand should things go horribly wrong. Case in point 2 years ago a new jersey town published a map of every gun owner in the town. Guess what happened crime rose drastically. But only on the homes that had guns so they could steal them. But why you ask they should have run scared guns are a deterrent? No they are a last line of defense. You keep quiet. Avoid problems and only go to your gun when it comes down to your life or theirs.

If you think guns scare away people then why dont you advertise like you do have one? By your logic that will keep you safe as can be. In fact please do because thats one more advertised target that isn't me.

Well, so far, 'guns being carried' as a last resort (ok, not as a deterrent) has not been a great example of either being safe or keeping the peace, or of lowering crime of any sorts in the great nation of gun ownership.

Don't get me wrong, if I lived there where just about everyone has a gun, someplace that legislate you must have one, where serious violent crime is so high, and police aim their guns whilst doing license checks (and shoot blacks if they go for their license), I'd be carrying too. just because I wouldn't want to be an odd one out.

Doomsday Preppers (that US reality/comedy) I just love. A couple of weeks ago this gun toting father was demonstrating to his two young sons gun safety by blowing his finger off right there in tv. that was so funny. It's quickly becoming one of my favorite shows. Lol.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by NoTies

So, better to kill someone (possibly innocent) than rely on avoidance or deterence?

No one ever said that. Last resort means after all other deterrence have failed. Hence a last resort. But also going back to the original question and what I have stated previously on this thread. I personally want them for when out at sea where there is no help. Not when in your country where there is help to be had. I would declare and secure them and use other deterrence methods like everyone else. Dont be inflammatory trying to act like we shoot first because we're an uncivilized 1 trick pony.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

NEVARRRRR!!!

Hope not, it's educational.

[Coops]

Originally Posted by ontherocks83

And coops it is not rationalizing or contradicting anything. I dont expect you to understand. If you've never been around guns it is natural to be afraid of them. I yell about it on here to get a point across. In the real world you wouldn't know me from any other stranger so you wouldn't know I had anything on-board. To you and your fellow country men I would portray myself as a typically tourist. Aside from my good looks I wouldn't stand out in a crowd. I keep my guns secret so I dont become a target and so any potential criminal has their guard down.

You are making assumptions about me there I am afraid. I have been "around guns" a strange way to put it, but it is yours, and have owned them. So totally incorrect in that one.

Then you choose to imply that I am afraid of them. I am not at all in fact, only if somebody is waving one at me then that changes somewhat. What I am afraid of though are some of the people who own them and think that they are somehow the answer to all their problems.

Coops.