Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Factor

Then of course there are state laws.

which don't apply because you are not importing the firearm into Australia.

and re mexico it is possible to bring firearms into the country,but prior permission must be applied for from their exterior ministry.

as others have said,do your homework.

,mexico and Dominican republic are probably the exceptions to the rule,but living next door to the worlds biggest armoury................

[weavis]

Originally Posted by stevec195

Someone put me out of my misery and shoot this thread


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Lol....... you have the luxury of not having to read it. The mods on the other hand.............

[a64pilot]

I'm just pleased it hasn't gone down the emotional road yet, surprised, but pleased.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I'm just pleased it hasn't gone down the emotional road yet, surprised, but pleased.

see isn't it nice to have someone quoting researched FACTS,and personal experince for a change rather than unfounded hearsay,based on strongly held opinions rather than fact.

fact is boats carry guns legally,and a lot of cargo ships carry controlled drugs,which are treated in exactly the same way .

the customs and excise departments deals with bonded stores on a daily basis,globally,guns are no different,and are considered as part of the ships equipment in most ports.

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by stevec195

Someone put me out of my misery and shoot this thread

Piff-paff, piff-paff, piff-paff!!!

Sorry... I missed...

Must be this recoil thing...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by atoll

link to above post

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ntry-1641.html

Be aware and I said this to Gord May at the time, these regulations are basically in respect of importation of firearms. But You , on you yacht are not importing firearms, you are merely declaring them.

The rules for this action are sometimes quite different from the importation laws.

dave

[atoll]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Be aware and I said this to Gord May at the time, these regulations are basically in respect of importation of firearms. But You , on you yacht are not importing firearms, you are merely declaring them.

The rules for this action are sometimes quite different from the importation laws.

dave

hence the confusion between bonded items and tempory importation

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by atoll

see isn't it nice to have someone quoting researched FACTS,and personal experince for a change rather than unfounded hearsay,based on strongly held opinions rather than fact.

fact is boats carry guns legally,and a lot of cargo ships carry controlled drugs,which are treated in exactly the same way .

the customs and excise departments deals with bonded stores on a daily basis,globally,guns are no different,and are considered as part of the ships equipment in most ports.

This is rather an over simplification Atoll.

The first thing is that leisure ports, as opposed to commercial ports, are NOT used to dealing with yachts rocking up with firearms. ( you might try it a few times), Different officials react in different ways and some can surprise you.

rarely in my experience has customs anything to do with firearms. In most countries this is under the purview of the police. IN some cases they may be aware of the procedures to be followed, in many cases they are not and in one case I found that the firearms store was many miles away from the port and the firearms had to be transported using special courier at my expense ( delivery with a gun onboard)

Furthermore the carriage of firearms on merchant ships is quite rare.

I quote from the 2009 IMO circular

"The MSC agreed that flag States should strongly discourage the carrying and use of firearms by seafarers for personal protection or for the protection of a ship. Seafarers, it was agreed, are civilians and the use of firearms requires special training and aptitudes and the risk of accidents with firearms carried on board ship is great. Carriage of arms on board ship may encourage attackers to carry firearms or even more dangerous weapons, thereby escalating an already dangerous situation. Any firearm on board may itself become an attractive target for an attacker. Carriage of firearms may pose an even greater danger if the ship is carrying flammable cargo or similar types of dangerous goods"

Having said that many ( for example ) European flag states allows ships to carry firearms , typically as long as they are outside their own state waters, Spain, Uk, France, etc allow ships to carry either firearms or protection pesonell as required. The USA also, by way of license , allows anything under 50 cal and not automatic .

But again ships have mandatory safes, procedures and paperwork, the average yacht has usually nothing

It would be wrong to present the carriage of firearms ( and in particular semi-auto pistols) as being "routine:

dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by atoll

hence the confusion between bonded items and tempory importation

Correct, for example the UK has very lenient laws ( actually very few) around carrying firearms on board its flag vessels, The rules it applies differ considerably from whether you are declaring it onboard or importing it.

Note the issues isn't "bonding", Bonding an item is storing it without having to pay customs duties. Firearms are not "bonded". Often the local police have a wide variety of powers to deal with the carriage and use of firearms, They may choose to implement some, none or all of these when presented with a firearm. I have had a situation where it was basically at the discretion of a senior officer as to what happened next.

I used to bring firearms across EU countries for a while , when I competed ( albeit not well !) I had all the EU firearms passports, still a whole heel of paperwork, just not worth it in the end. ( also fishing your ammo and guns out of the baggage carousels and wandering around trying to find the police/customs was always very bizarre.

dave

[a64pilot]

You know if going to friendly places, through friendly waters etc., I wouldn't want a gun, but if I had to travel through a questionable area, I might want a Ruger mini-14, and yes I can hit from my boat further than almost any pirate can from a skiff. I'm better than almost all of them, and firing from a more stable platform.
Up to now, I had pretty much thought in the unlikely event I had to travel through unfriendly waters of just tossing the gun and ammo overboard well after having gone through the trouble spot, but before getting out of international waters.
In the unlikely event I'll ever desire to be armed, I'll research where I'm going with the idea of not having to toss an expensive item.

[goboatingnow]

In the unlikely event I'll ever desire to be armed, I'll research where I'm going with the idea of not having to toss an expensive item.

probably the great lakes then!

[atoll]

I was not advocating the carrying of firearms,meerly sharing my experience of sailing twice round the world with a variety of firearms onboard,and the general acceptable practice of declaring them,for which I have never had a weapon confiscated permernantly,nor have I been arrested.

quite the contrary really,the biggest hassle generally faced is counting all the ammunition which is time consuming!,the paperwork and storage is generally very straight forward,and an accepted practise the world over by customs and port police.
in my experience

in fact the last time I sailed into Australia in 2010,the customs seemed more concerned over the contents of the first aid kit than any firearms onboard!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by atoll

I was not advocating the carrying of firearms,meerly sharing my experience of sailing twice round the world with a variety of firearms onboard,and the general acceptable practice of declaring them,for which I have never had a weapon confiscated permernantly,nor have I been arrested.

quite the contrary really,the biggest hassle generally faced is counting all the ammunition which is time consuming!,the paperwork and storage is generally very straight forward,and an accepted practise the world over by customs and port police.
in my experince

We had a semi automatic and it seems to generate way to much hassle, compared to a shotgun etc.

Im not arguing against carrying a firearm, I personally don't think they are a whole lot of use on a boat, and the paperwork is sometimes mental.

As to confiscation , me neither, but several police peoples, gave me the look that said " why you bothering me with this ".

storage is generally very straight forward,and an accepted practise the world over by customs and port police.

You just go to different places to me, certainly in Europe, pulling into a marina and declaring a firearm, caused a few consternations in places.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

We had a semi automatic and it seems to generate way to much hassle, compared to a shotgun etc.

Im not arguing against carrying a firearm, I personally don't think they are a whole lot of use on a boat, and the paperwork is sometimes mental.

As to confiscation , me neither, but several police peoples, gave me the look that said " why you bothering me with this ".



You just go to different places to me, certainly in Europe, pulling into a marina and declaring a firearm, caused a few consternations in places.

I have found in the med that Gibraltar was quite happy to hold your firearms for extended periods whilst you cruised to turkey and back,and pick them up on the way out,the same in Cyprus with multiple indian ocean transits,so effectively apart from a few times we never had firearms onboard when doing the season in the med.

[hellosailor]

"counting all the ammunition which is time consuming!"
How many rounds does one carry? If they're packed in any standard case or manufacturer's box, really, a fast count of rows by columns gives you 20 or 50 or 500 in the time it takes to ring up a cheeseburger at a fast food joint. I suspect anything over the first hundred would get you some extra scrutiny at most borders.


A good ten years or so ago, one of the sailing magazines had an article discussing (among other things) guns aboard. The author had surrendered his shotgun (I believe it was) to the local police for "secure storage" while he was on some carib island nation. And when he went to get it back upon his departure, he found it had been USED and not cleaned.

So even if you are following the rules...there can be problems.


I think it was Donald Street who used to carry a salute canon onboard, and when filling out papers on entry he would list the boat as a "sloop on one gun". My how times have changed.