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Old 11-10-2014, 17:32   #481
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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Don't get me wrong, if I lived there where just about everyone has a gun, someplace that legislate you must have one, where serious violent crime is so high, and police aim their guns whilst doing license checks (and shoot blacks if they go for their license), I'd be carrying too. just because I wouldn't want to be an odd one out.
Wow rustic even as a joke that is a disgustingly ignorant comment. I'm speechless.
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Old 11-10-2014, 17:33   #482
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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No one ever said that. Last resort means after all other deterrence have failed. Hence a last resort. But also going back to the original question and what I have stated previously on this thread. I personally want them for when out at sea where there is no help. Not when in your country where there is help to be had. I would declare and secure them and use other deterrence methods like everyone else. Dont be inflammatory trying to act like we shoot first because we're an uncivilized 1 trick pony.
Apart from Somalia, can you give me any incidents of high seas violence in the last 20 years that would have necessitated the use of arms by yachties. Somalia and other similar areas are a simple fix. Avoid or travel under escort.
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Old 11-10-2014, 17:35   #483
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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You are making assumptions about me there I am afraid. I have been "around guns" a strange way to put it, but it is yours, and have owned them. So totally incorrect in that one.

Then you choose to imply that I am afraid of them. I am not at all in fact, only if somebody is waving one at me then that changes somewhat. What I am afraid of though are some of the people who own them and think that they are somehow the answer to all their problems.

Coops.
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Old 11-10-2014, 17:39   #484
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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Wow rustic even as a joke that is a disgustingly ignorant comment. I'm speechless.
Which bit

And let's keep it without the name calling please. It's been so respectful so far, don't think we need to start calling each other names. Wouldn't be nice.
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Old 11-10-2014, 17:40   #485
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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Apart from Somalia, can you give me any incidents of high seas violence in the last 20 years that would have necessitated the use of arms by yachties. Somalia and other similar areas are a simple fix. Avoid or travel under escort.
Exactly! Most situations are caused by people mis-interpreting the situation and pulling out their guns too early, which escalates the situation.

Cruising in Indonesia and Malaysia, you always get approached by dodgy looking fishing boats, always wondering what they want. I always carry heaps of cheap cigarettes, cheap whiskey and porn magazines... They love them, they are usually just looking to check you out, if you have something to trade, hand it over and you will get some great fish. I can see how some people would find it threatening, pull out the shotty and start waving it around... then things go LOUD.
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Old 11-10-2014, 17:50   #486
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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Exactly! Most situations are caused by people mis-interpreting the situation and pulling out their guns too early, which escalates the situation.

Cruising in Indonesia and Malaysia, you always get approached by dodgy looking fishing boats, always wondering what they want. I always carry heaps of cheap cigarettes, cheap whiskey and porn magazines... They love them, they are usually just looking to check you out, if you have something to trade, hand it over and you will get some great fish. I can see how some people would find it threatening, pull out the shotty and start waving it around... then things go LOUD.


Shortly after I trained as a cop, the academy introduced a thing they were calling 'verbal judo', which the great many cops at the time, especially us young ones, though was BS. We expected people (the public) to do as we say when. We had actually lost site of what our purpose was. As years went on I come to realize that the idea behind this 'verbal judo' was the sign of an experienced and professional cop. 14 years after leaving the force and working in another area of legislation where I'm still working closely with angry public, 'verbal judo' is the best way of calming a situation down.

Coxswains suggestion is what I'd term a professional and wise approach which is respectful to the locals, their customs and their curiosity.

I've heard of less than a handful of world traveling yachties getting in such danger that a weapon would have helped things and yet stories of doing the 'verbal judo' are many, and successfully so.
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Old 11-10-2014, 18:00   #487
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

Yes, love the Verbal Judo course... "get over the playground" I think the term was. I have my certificate here somewhere in a drawer... haha.

I used to work with all the Indonesian Fishermen, the ones we grabbed when they would come down into Australia and go after the shark-fin etc.
They generally are inquisitive people and they are all about trading. I always make a point of learning enough of the local dialect to "shoot the sh*t" so to speak, which makes them laugh, and usually results in a bucket of fish or prawns in exchange for a few worthless items from the boat. Just try not to over-react when their old wooden boat bangs into yours... lol...
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Old 11-10-2014, 18:01   #488
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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police aim their guns whilst doing license checks (and shoot blacks if they go for their license), I'd be carrying too. .
This part

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Which bit

And let's keep it without the name calling please. It's been so respectful so far, don't think we need to start calling each other names. Wouldn't be nice.
Wasn't calling you names just classifying your statement.

Not meaning to get hostile at all just trying to disprove the wild west persona that people automatically assume gun owners especially Americans have.

Like stated it is a tool. A very private tool that no one should be aware of besides customs when you actually have it on board.
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Old 11-10-2014, 19:42   #489
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

" I've misunderstood something, if you don't carry for a 'deterrent' to crime, what do you carry guns in board for?

Da! Got it, fishing. "

Shark rifle. And if you're in parts of Oz, Florida, and Africa? Works on crocs or gators just as well. Grenades work better, but they're way more expensive than bullets, and tend to cause even greater upset than guns when people come across them unexpected.
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Old 11-10-2014, 20:54   #490
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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So, better to kill someone (possibly innocent) than rely on avoidance or deterence?
What makes you assume those are the only choices?
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Old 11-10-2014, 21:17   #491
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

As I plan to cast off and set sail for distant shores a LOT of friends and family ask about pirates and if I'll have a 50 caliber mounted to the deck. I always reply that I don't need guns if I have torpedoes and small guided missiles. They always look back at me and wonder if I'm serious or joking. That kind of sums up those that don't know about what cruising is all about.

First, I think I would have to agree with Albert Einstein that everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler. Douglas Adams would probably add that a cruising lifestyle should be doubly so. Guns complicate the basic concept of simplicity. My life has been complicated up to this point and I'm done with anything that exacerbates the problem.

So, what is the risk? Locking up a weapon does very little as most malicious boarding are close to land; the very place you'll need to lock up your gun but need it the most. Someone once told me that all of the pirates I'll see will be wearing official uniforms like immigration, customs or local police in developing nations. It's just part of their culture and doing business. I count the risk to sail without firearms to be acceptable for me.

Me and my 19 year old daughter were sailing between Guadeloupe and Antigua I noticed a wooden fishing boat with two large engines on the stern approaching off of port side on what appeared to be an intercept course. Under sail I stayed on course and watched carefully but was apprehensive about their intentions. They seemed to be adjusting their closure rate to meet us. I called my daughter on deck then told her as we got to within about 70 meters to go back down and hand me something and make it obvious. She said we didn't have anything more menacing than a steak knife in the cutlery drawer. The boat stopped about 50 meters from our port beam and waved. I waved back and we passed. They waited for me to clear from their path and then continued on their course perpendicular to our's. I don't know if they were friendly or unfriendly but all came out well. I always think back on that and wonder what might have happened had I had a gun.Was it necessary? Were the folks on the boat up to no good or just curious? It's a lot to ponder.

In the end I think this is just a personal choice and nothing more. I think by the time most people make the decision to head away from home shores they have already made many decisions regarding their safety and welfare. Guns add a level of complication that is unacceptable to me; for others it is worth the additional hassle when clearing into a port. I thought about having a gun but hiding it so well that it couldn't be found. Then I thought it would make it inaccessible to me and if found out by a diligent customs official it would be devastating to my sailing plans and probably my freedom. I couldn't think of a scenario that made the risk worth carrying a gun a good decision for me.

I've also wondered how many guns are at the bottom of the sea because sailors just gut tired of the hassle of clearing them into countries. Something else to ponder...
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Old 11-10-2014, 22:22   #492
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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What makes you assume those are the only choices?
Because using a rifle barrel to wave a surrender flag has not been touted here as an alternative form of self defence. The gun toters insist on using them as a last resort, what are they going to do, say here, take my gun but spare my life? No, they intend to take a human life with it instead of avoiding the situation in the first place. It's a bit like me carrying anti-venom when I try not to go anywhere I am likely to be bitten by a snake and if I do I wear long boots.
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:08   #493
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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Put this on the front of your boat and see what happens...
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Old 12-10-2014, 04:01   #494
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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Put this on the front of your boat and see what happens...
Hahaha,
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Old 12-10-2014, 04:25   #495
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Re: Guns on a Boat, Yes or No?

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Exactly! Most situations are caused by people mis-interpreting the situation and pulling out their guns too early, which escalates the situation.

Cruising in Indonesia and Malaysia, you always get approached by dodgy looking fishing boats, always wondering what they want. I always carry heaps of cheap cigarettes, cheap whiskey and porn magazines... They love them, they are usually just looking to check you out, if you have something to trade, hand it over and you will get some great fish. I can see how some people would find it threatening, pull out the shotty and start waving it around... then things go LOUD.

I usually don't get involved in gun threads because of the "Either you're with us or agin us" mentality. But am I the only one who sees the other "It's highly illegal and can get you thrown in some third world prisons" item in the above post?
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