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Old 27-10-2014, 03:14   #1
tob
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Finding the Family Cruiser

Hi!

Just joined the forum, thanks!

We're a family from Sweden, Europe, planning to sail the Atlantic Rally Cruise in about four years. Currently sailing a Swedish bermuda-rigged 30 feet boat that we will try sell in 2 years time.

It is time to begin looking for the next boat, getting the picture of what we need and want. I've checked out Swedish boat forums and gotten some advice, mainly Swedish boats. They say Swedish cruising boats are better than average in endurance, quality etc. Maybe but I want to balance that view and also please get tips of foreign boats that may suit us.

Top priority is security and having a boat that can survive a storm well. Best of course to avoid storms but...

Our planned route is the traditional: leave Sweden in June, sailing either through The Caledonian canal and on to Cork, Ireland (visit friends), and outside Biscaya down to north-west Spain, on to the Canary Islands in November before ARC starts. Or through the English channel and over Biscaya.

Having three kids aboard - well, nothing must happen to them! So learned that new Bavaria boats with spade rudder is not what we need. Heard long keeled ketch rigged cutters are the best for handling a storm? We rather stay in port than sail when the weather is too harsh and we would rather sail the shortest route out of a storm if it comes to that and/or the opposite direction of our goal if it means max safety and minimum stress on the boat (and crew). We will have extra adult crew members for the major passages.

Please advice on boat types? I don't mind buying in Denmark, England, the Netherlands etc, using one summer vacation to sail it home. However we've said that this adventure should begin in Sweden, though The Kiel canal etc so won't buy a boat in e.g. the Carribean. Our budget: max 50000 Euro. We rather buy a boat that has most of the equipment we need already. People say in forums we should buy a cheaper boat and equip it ourselves but we both work full-time and I know from the current boat that was a wreck when we bought it, hence cheap, that the labour is not to be underestimated! So partly equipped for the ARC would be nice!

Cheers

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Old 27-10-2014, 05:32   #2
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Welcome!

Hallberg Rassy yachts are excellent for your purpose. You're budget will also allow you to look at some used Oysters and Swans as well. Najad and a Tayana 58 also come to mind.

The cutter rig will provide you the sail versatility you're seeking, plus I recommend a full skeg mounted rudder. Others will disagree, but we dragged anchor once last summer and ended up backed onto a quiet beach, no damage but we were glad we had it and saw first hand how important having a protected/supported rudder can be.

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Old 27-10-2014, 05:33   #3
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, tob.
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Old 27-10-2014, 07:54   #4
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Hi Tob,

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your cruising plans.

Except for some of the larger or better known builders I am not that familiar with boats built it Sweden or Scandinavia in general. I would just say that there are well made boats from builders all over the world in addition to Scandinavia: England, France, Germany, USA, South Africa, Taiwan are a few that come to mind.

Regarding the design, full keel vs fin or modified fin, I think this is largely a matter of personal preference. Like any aspect of a boat design there will be some benefits and some negatives. I have owned full keel and modified fin keel boats and have a preference for a modified fin keel. My reasons. NOTE: all statements are generalities and you can certainly find exceptions to these rules that will not follow the pattern.

- A well designed and balanced modified fin keel boat will track well even in following seas but you will probably have to pay a little more attention to balance and good sail trim, a good thing I believe.

- Generally a fin or modified fin will have better windward performance than a full keel boat which can contribute to safety for example if you are stuck off a lee shore.

- Fin keel boats are much more maneuverable than full keel boats. If you are cruising open water and seldom go to marinas, canals, locks, etc then this may not be a big concern.

- I do prefer a skeg hung rudder although there are plenty of serious boats and sailors that are spade rudders.

I understand your preference for buying an equipped boat but would not let that be the main deciding factor. If you find a good deal on a boat without many electronics or older stuff ready to replace I wouldn't pass it up. You can just buy the basic necessities to start and add the rest as necessary. I would make sure to have a really good autopilot or wind vane self steering before taking off.
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Old 27-10-2014, 21:18   #5
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Aloha and welcome aboard!
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Old 27-10-2014, 21:20   #6
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Lots of boats will do the job nicely. Good luck on your adventure.
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Old 28-10-2014, 13:45   #7
tob
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Najad 37
Boström 37
HR 35 Rasmus ketch
Najad 343
HR 352
Malö 40
Maxi 108
overseas 35
Tayana ketch kutter
Oyster
Swan

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Old 28-10-2014, 13:47   #8
tob
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

A little explanation to that. Those are the boats I am currently checking out. Any more ideas ladies and gentlemen?

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Old 28-10-2014, 16:35   #9
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Look at the Amel vessels... they've sailed more times around the world than any of the others.

They are more practical... but I am biased!!
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Old 28-10-2014, 16:48   #10
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Did I miss something, his budget is 50K euro, about 64K US?
Did I leave a zero out? Oysters and Amels and Swans for 64K US?
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Old 29-10-2014, 02:04   #11
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Greetings a64 pilot,

1. It is a buyer's market. Expect sales to finalise at 15-20% below asking.

2. Lookie here...

1981 AMEL Sharki Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

The little sucker above will do a RTW in a flash with nothing more than a good once over before departure.

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Old 29-10-2014, 02:25   #12
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Hi Tob

I'm Danish so I'm familiar with the Scandinavian boats. A couple of comments. You say 3 kids and plan on leaving in 4 years. If your kids are teenagers (or will become so during your travels, you will need to think about sleeping arrangements. Teens generally want a "private" space of some kind. Dumping 3 kids into one cabin (unless they are small) is difficult.

So let's assume you need at least a 3 cabin version. This will narrow the playing field. You've also noted that you expect to have extra adult crew on board for passages - again you will need more room. This is not to say that they can't sleep in a sea bunk - but this gets tiresome for everyone, if the main salon constantly has someone sleeping.

If you are confining yourself to the Atlantic, the longest passage you will see will be 3 maybe 4 weeks (canaries to carribean). If you stay in the passage season (november to end January for the crossing) the chances are running into a major storm are slight. If you ensure you a way of getting weather forecasts daily (SSB radio/sat telephone) then you should never be surprised by a major storm and you will have at least a 2 day warning to skedaddle out of the way.

I'd agree with not going the Bavaria route, in my opinion they are for coastal use, not passagemaking (just a little too flimsy).

However there are lots of other good boats with fin keels and spade rudders, Bene's (check out Markj on this forum - he's circumnavigated in bene 39), jeanneau (I have one - damn tough boat), Moody, and lots lots more.

Here's a link to a Phantom 42 - very good boats, sail well and this one has been over the atlantic and is equipped for it. I'm sure the price is negotiable (willing to accept smaller boat in trade). I believe Phantoms have 4 cabins plus some seabunks.

Phantom 42, 1985, Pris DKK 595.000, Brugt Sejlb?d/Sejlb?de S?lges, Helsing?r Danmark

I do think your budget is on the low side. 50k euro's won't buy much and you'll end up having to dump a sum equal to that to get it ready.

If you like what you see on the Phantoms - here are some more for sale - including some in sweden.

http://www.scanboat.com/dk/BoatSaleList.asp
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Old 29-10-2014, 02:42   #13
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Further comment to Carstenb note...

I have an Amel Super Maramu (53 feet) and I plan a max of 4 people for long crossings, 2 in near shore travels. It has 2 real cabins! Remember... the more cabins = the less storage space. It is incredible what you will carry for a RTW... tool, sheets, extra anchors, spares for water pumps, generators, engine, genset, solar panels etc.

From my personal observation/findings, if you have a large crew, it is only a matter of time before one crew member gets on your nerves. I then get into "who will be the next human sacrifice" mood! Shark bait so to speak.

3 kids will be a big responsibility especially if the boat is smallish. Do not underestimate this aspect.



Another boat maker is Bavaria... I owned a custom one a few years ago. If you want a mass production boat, select one with deep keel and tall mast. Boat will sail better and be more stable.
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Old 29-10-2014, 04:35   #14
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

You're right. I went back an recounted the zeros in the OP's price point. 50k... Not 500k. That last zero makes a difference. Forget about any of my previous suggestions, the OP will need to drastically downsize the boat or double to triple his budget. Oops.
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Old 29-10-2014, 05:58   #15
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Re: Finding the family cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by tob View Post
Najad 37
Boström 37
HR 35 Rasmus ketch
Najad 343
HR 352
Malö 40
Maxi 108
overseas 35
Tayana ketch kutter
Oyster
Swan

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Tob

I cjecked pricing on a couple of these on Scanboat - how do you figure on buying any of these for 50k euros? Virtually all of them start at 100k euros and go up.

Whatever you buy - figure on having to invest 30-40k euro's ingetting it ready.

By the way- re: Phantoms. I don't personally know the boat I sent the link on, but I do have friends who have a Phantom so I know the boat type - good boat.
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