Do blue water cruising sailboats require a deep keel?

[AndyEss]

Lovely looking boat, but it looks a bit like its nose was cut off. The lines call for about a 3 ft long bowsprit ��

[Darcosailing]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

Lovely looking boat, but it looks a bit like its nose was cut off. The lines call for about a 3 ft long bowsprit ��

I really like the idea of a bowsprit, would the Genoa stay where it is?

[Darcosailing]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Nice looking boat, but if you are new to boat repair, DO NOT buy a wooden boat.

Could you elaborate on that? maybe there is something Im overlooking.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Darcosailing

Could you elaborate on that? maybe there is something Im overlooking.

I would start with this thread:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-227306.html

[gonesail]

looks like a nice shoal draft bahamas or west Florida boat. not sure what your draft requirements are in Ireland

[AndyEss]

Originally Posted by Darcosailing

I really like the idea of a bowsprit, would the Genoa stay where it is?

I don’t think I would mess with changing the genoa until you get a lot of experience with the boat, should you buy it.
Use a bowsprit (I think it might improve the already nice aesthetics) to fly an asymmetrical spinnaker, light freeflying drifter.
Sail balance should dictate changing rigging. That bow just looks visually weak for. such nice lines

[Darcosailing]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

I don’t think I would mess with changing the genoa until you get a lot of experience with the boat, should you buy it.
Use a bowsprit (I think it might improve the already nice aesthetics) to fly an asymmetrical spinnaker, light freeflying drifter.
Sail balance should dictate changing rigging. That bow just looks visually weak for. such nice lines

I see, Im with you now, thanks.

[Darcosailing]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I would start with this thread:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-227306.html

Great good one I read that before i posted, great info.

[FAST FRED]

If racing to windward and pointing high is your desire a deep keel is the norm.


If lying a hull in a bad storm is your thing , the shallow draft is the best bet.


Read any book by Maurice Griffith ,

[chuckr]

[QUOTE=Darcosailing;3032689]Hi fellow sailors,
i have been told that a deeper keel makes for a steadier sail if not slower, (im in no hurry to get anywhere) QUOTE]


Not in a hurry to get anywhere?? Not sure on that. Once we leave the dock/anchorage our goal is to arrive at the next one ASAP. We do not want to spend anymore time out there than necessary and create risks that are not necessary.
and don't mistake us as we have sailed most of the Carib, across the Atlantic, circum nav the Black Sea, almost all the Med and now think of another crossing of the Atlantic. We see little reason not to make a fast trip and never try to take unnessary risks.

just our thoughts

[rvich]

How is this boat ballasted?

It's a beautiful boat. It looks to me like a good boat for the canals of Europe, not sure about blue water. You can look into ballast to displacement ratios and discussions on how that ballast is placed in reference to the center of effort. These are traditionally linked to stability. It's pretty easy to argue that a deep keel with external ballast offsets the center of effort (sails) more easily and thus allows the boat to carry more sail when the wind comes up.

A lot of wooden boats that have internal ballast have either lead or iron punchings in poured concrete. I'm not a fan of that type of ballasting. I like to be able to see and ventilate the interior of my planking rather than trapping moisture. If the ballast is iron then rust becomes an issue and will eventually crack the concrete. Find out what's in there.

Additionally, external ballast gives you something to bump against the bottom. Internal ballast actually pushes against the ribs and planking rather than hanging from the keel. If the boat grounds and sits dry through a tide cycle, I would worry about what that internal weight was doing to the structure. But that's just me. I have a 70-year old wooden boat with external lead ballast. It's just my opinion that the ballast is best outside.

I'd be quite surprised if this boat was unballasted.

Russ

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Darcosailing

Hi fellow sailors,
I am going to view this 38 foot 9 tonne 1960 wooden Bermudan ketch mahogany planking on oak frame. I have requested more pictures from the seller before i travel to view, so for now this is the best I have of the keel, could someone with experience tell me if this yacht has a deep enough keel for a blue-water cruiser/liveaboard ? for comfortable sailing? is a deep keel even necessary? have I been properly informed? it also has a centreboard/daggerboard dimensions are roughly (3 foot 3 inches x10 inches) i have been told that a deeper keel makes for a steadier sail if not slower, (im in no hurry to get anywhere)
Im not looking to be talked out of buying an old wooden boat my question is about the keel. Thank's everyone.
PS: I am new to forums and have tried to attach a picture, hope it works.

"Deep" is relative to the boat. My earlier San Juan 28 had a 4.5' keel and that was as deep as they came. There are also shallower keels that are "wing" or "shoal" drafted that will perform adequately. Some new boat makers today offer various keel options for their models. It all depends on your expected use.

A long deep keel does have advantages for offshore passages as they tend to hold their course better.

Consider where you plan to sail the boat...its intended use and go from there as no boat can do everything.

To my knowledge, you don't see any manufacturers producing 38' centerboard cruisers these days for good reasons. One basic concern I would have is the centerboard itself, its construction, mechanical system for lowering and raising to say nothing of its attachment to the hull...I would hate to lose it. Is it of significant ballast weight or more like a dagger-board with little weight? As a liveaboard it wouldn't matter.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Darcosailing]

Originally Posted by MJH

"Deep" is relative to the boat. My earlier San Juan 28 had a 4.5' keel and that was as deep as they came. There are also shallower keels that are "wing" or "shoal" drafted that will perform adequately. Some new boat makers today offer various keel options for their models. It all depends on your expected use.

A long deep keel does have advantages for offshore passages as they tend to hold their course better.

Consider where you plan to sail the boat...its intended use and go from there as no boat can do everything.

To my knowledge, you don't see any manufacturers producing 38' centerboard cruisers these days for good reasons. One basic concern I would have is the centerboard itself, its construction, mechanical system for lowering and raising to say nothing of its attachment to the hull...I would hate to lose it. Is it of significant ballast weight or more like a dagger-board with little weight? As a liveaboard it wouldn't matter.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

Hi there,

There are angles there I didn't consider, The Centreboard is Cast iron I haven't inspected it yet so im not sure how it's fixed or works, I may be way off with this observation but in a photo of the galley area i see a winch type thing Im not sure if it is a clue of the mechanism?.
I plan to liveaborad but also to sail all over Europe when I gain more miles and confidence I plan to visit friends in Texas and Huntington beach in California and further afield. From what I have read it seems that a deeper keel with more surface area would be helpful, I have also read that there would be less rocking from side to side and things like 'hove to' would be easier/better.

Have you ever heard of a keel being extended/deepened? is this possible? would it upset the balance of the yacht? would it work? I would pay a professional to design it but would carry out the work myself.

Cheers, Darco.

[rvich]

Yes, that winch is part of the mechanism for raising the centerboard.

Most likely the "centerboard" is a "swing keel" in that it is held in place by a pin on which it pivots. The cable goes to the heel of the board so that when it is pulled by winching it raises the back of the keel with the front/top pivoting on the pin. The keel is then raised far enough to hide inside its trunk.

The benefit of this system is that you can change the balance of the helm by partially raising the board and changing the center of resistance. It is also preferable to a dagger board in that if it strikes bottom it swings up (aft) and frees itself. Because it is heavy it does not require any force to push it into place, rather the cable is used as a braking mechanism.

I'd still like to know how the boat is ballasted if I were to go cruising on it. For the coastal areas around Europe and potentially canals, it seems that it might be perfect.

[HappyGuy]

In 1998 I crewed on a 36 foot low deadrise hard chine steel gaff ketch of 2foot 6 inch draft with centreboard, from Auckland NZ to Savusavu Fiji, to Suva, to Kadavu Island, back to Suva, to Lautoka.
Then to Port Vila, Vanuatu.
The design is called a Fishing Gaffer by Dennis Ganley, NZ.

He and his partner carried on to New Caledonia, Solomon Islands, Queensland Coast and back to NZ without any issues.

This boat was the most comfortable boat I have ever sailed on. Never ever got a rhythmic roll and always sailed at a shallow angle of heel and didn't pitch a great deal either.

The passage to Savu Savu took 10 days - a reasonable passage time I think
.
Going to windward was a bit slow - but once the sheets were cracked she had reasonable boat speed.
Being shallow draft we could go where a lot of other boats couldn't.

So to answer your question - Yes - a well designed shallow draft boat can go blue water cruising.