Cruisers leasing private piers short term

[hellosailor]

Ignoring all the liability issues. Ignoring the need to have commercial/business insurance. Ignoring that an awful lot of homes today are on communities governed by a "Home Owners' Association" which prohibits everything down to washing you car or hanging your laundry in public view.

Your idea only works if someone works a "front desk" like a motel to check in transients whenever they happen by. Or, if sailors are running railroad schedules and will pay you up front regardless of when they actually happen to arrive. Or not.

I suspect the folks who can afford waterfront property and docks, don't want all the bother and fuss and disruption that would come with a truly minimal income from a stream of transients.

Oh, look, that nice man left his garbage bags on my dock. And now I've got to pay to have that disposed of? And his dog ate my begonias? Oh, and I've got to file for a local business license as well?

[skipmac]

Where renting private docks does make sense are places like south Florida where there are more boats than docks and marinas are very expensive. In Ft Lauderdale for example lots of private homes rent the docks behind the house but these are usually long term rentals and the great majority do not allow live-aboards.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Where renting private docks does make sense are places like south Florida where there are more boats than docks and marinas are very expensive. In Ft Lauderdale for example lots of private homes rent the docks behind the house but these are usually long term rentals and the great majority do not allow live-aboards.

Yes, lots of rental of dock space here, but long term to people known and no living aboard or even spending nights aboard. Simply for docking when not on the water. Typically the prices are running $10-12 per foot per month. Typically marinas in the area are $15-20 and up.

[boatenvy]

Wow this really spawned some conversation...I think it's a bit disappointing that so many people completely write off the idea because nobody wants a stranger tying up at their dock, if that was universally true there'd be no such thing as B&B or private guest houses. Personally I wouldn't want a stranger living in my house but I'd be more than happy to have someone tie up to my unused dock for a couple of days (not that I have a dock ...or sadly a boat at the moment either...but one day I'm sure I will again). There are admittedly a lot of marinas in Florida but they're not always where you want them and they're often outrageously expensive for those that simply want to to tie up overnight and perhaps stroll to a grocery store.

There are a few logistical challenges but I wouldn't think them completely insurmountable. If nothing else it would be nice to see an expansion of the 'Harbor Hosts' idea described by AnchorageGuy. Similarly I'd like to think that a couple of well meaning 'hippie kids' could still find plenty of farmers fields to pitch a tent even these days....this is the point where I break into a refrain of John Lennon's 'Imagine' (or perhaps not).

[Dulcesuenos]

There are ways around the red tape . you write a rental agreement that you are renting a room in the house to someone. That room entitles you to dock usage. I know someone doing this and at one time had like 4 people "renting the same room". He does have a lot of dockage.

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[BandB]

Originally Posted by boatenvy

Wow this really spawned some conversation...I think it's a bit disappointing that so many people completely write off the idea because nobody wants a stranger tying up at their dock, if that was universally true there'd be no such thing as B&B or private guest houses. Personally I wouldn't want a stranger living in my house but I'd be more than happy to have someone tie up to my unused dock for a couple of days (not that I have a dock ...or sadly a boat at the moment either...but one day I'm sure I will again). There are admittedly a lot of marinas in Florida but they're not always where you want them and they're often outrageously expensive for those that simply want to to tie up overnight and perhaps stroll to a grocery store.

There are a few logistical challenges but I wouldn't think them completely insurmountable. If nothing else it would be nice to see an expansion of the 'Harbor Hosts' idea described by AnchorageGuy. Similarly I'd like to think that a couple of well meaning 'hippie kids' could still find plenty of farmers fields to pitch a tent even these days....this is the point where I break into a refrain of John Lennon's 'Imagine' (or perhaps not).

A bed and breakfast is a business. Operated as one. Security in most cases. Credit cards taken as deposits and processed. Insured. Full price charged. Legal in every way. What is suggested in this short term docking scheme isn't any of that.

No comparison.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

There are ways around the red tape . you write a rental agreement that you are renting a room in the house to someone. That room entitles you to dock usage. I know someone doing this and at one time had like 4 people "renting the same room". He does have a lot of dockage.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

This is still not the short term stuff but longer term.

Fun fun fun till.......

Till homeowners association or local regulators come after over the home renting.

Now most dangerous part is if it's an illegal rental and completely by accident a fire starts and now the insurer denies the claim as engaged in illegal enterprise and/or renting as not allowed by the policy.

There are legal ways of renting dock space in most neighborhoods, generally with minimum length of contracts. Sometimes the tenant does require HOA approval.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by BandB

A bed and breakfast is a business. Operated as one. Security in most cases. Credit cards taken as deposits and processed. Insured. Full price charged. Legal in every way. What is suggested in this short term docking scheme isn't any of that.

No comparison.

Exactly. Anyone that operates a B&B went into this as a business, not as a sideline to rent out a couple of rooms in their personal residence. Plus as you point out in the following post, in many locations there will be HOA or local ordinances that restrict dock rentals, especially for staying on board at the dock.

[boatenvy]

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term B&B specifically ....there are plenty of non commercial entities renting out lodging as part of a private residence....and what I'm talking about is a lot less invasive than that. I'm guessing that it's against forum policies to start citing websites but suffice it to say that one of the larger (but certainly not only sites) claims "**** is a website for people to rent out lodging. It has over 500,000 listings in 33,000 cities and 192 countries". You could also look at organisations such as 'Couch Surfing' (not that I'd draw a close parallel with that but it does illustrate the point that there are plenty of people willing to share accommodation without being fully fledged businesses). I'm usually the cynic but I don't believe that all of the tens of thousands of private docks and piers up and down the ICW are controlled by home owner community restrictions or for that matter that every owner who has a private pier already has so much money that they would not want to make a few bucks and help fellow boaties by having a yacht tie up at their unused dock for a night. Sure there'll be a bunch that fall into these categories but not all.

More than once I've found myself electing to duck back into the ICW due to bad weather or sick crew and there's not always a marina or an anchorage handy. I've come in at night in unpleasant weather and had to motor down the ditch looking for a place to drop the hook passing dozens of empty docks and piers. The decision to head in having been made hours earlier (i.e. in time to locate and organise a docking option if this facility/community existed).

You could arguably limit the arrangement to a single night, perhaps even only daylight hours (admittedly not as useful but it would make a supermarket run a lot easier...and there have been times where I would have dearly liked to tie up and catch a few hours sleep during the day).

The idea might be more possible if it was purely a non commercial arrangement but of course if we're talking about the boating community supporting the boating community then there's a decent chance they'll already have their dock occupied.

[hellosailor]

"I'm usually the cynic but I don't believe that all of the tens of thousands of private docks and piers up and down the ICW are controlled by home owner community restrictions or "

Consider that anyone who lives in a city, town, village, or other incorporated municipality of some kind is also going to be governed by ZONING LAWS even if they hold a free and clear royal patent title on their property.

Zoning is residential and you rent out your dock? And your neighbor files a complaint that you are operating an UNLICENSED BUSINESS in a RESIDENTAL ZONE?

Good luck with that.

Very little of the ICW runs through unregulated wilderness. Maybe even none of it, if you keep "unregulated" in mind.

[nimblemotors]

My thought is create a business "Boat Host" that provides the insurance,
locations sign up and are covered by the insurance and boaters join and now can use the boat host sites with published fees and services.
The Boat Host is like a franchise, does the marketing, etc.

Whether there is enough business is anyone's guess.
If nobody thinks it will work, there is a perfect opportunity.
'rideshare' would never work either, and look at those companies now.

[hellosailor]

"'rideshare' would never work either, and look at those companies now. "
Or, like Aereo, here and gone once the courts got done with it.

The ridesharing companies are not dealing with real estate, so they have little in common here. The ridesharing companies, like Aereo, are still new and there's still every chance they'll be put out of business.

And the potential for a passenger to do damage to the ride provider, is far less than the damage a boater can do to a berth and the adjacent property.

Very different picture.

Still, there's a business opportunity for you, if you can convince the insurers (I think that took 3 years for one of the major ridesharing companies, during which time they couldn't get any coverage) and then convince the dock owners, and help them get past the maze of regulations that may ensnare them. Zoning, business licenses, insurance, all being just the least and most obvious of it all.

[BandB]

An example of conditions worsening and needing to duck into an area was mentioned. If I was home and saw a boater in that situation, I would welcome them to my dock. I would see how I could help them. But to me that's very different than renting my dock. I'll come to the aid of one in need, but not about to go into the business of renting my dock to those traveling through for short term stays.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha and welcome aboard!
I hope you can find some friendly folks to offer you dock space.

[BandB]

Let's add a bit more perspective to this. We've discussed the legality. We've discussed the potential risk. We've discussed the liability.

Now, specific to Fort Lauderdale. Typical waterfront home $2 million plus. Least expensive $1 million plus. Now how excited is someone with a million dollar home going to be over doing a transaction with many questions and issues around it for $60 for a night. Or lets say we're talking a 40' boat, you can rent at Las Olas for $44 or side tie on New River for $28 or Cooley's for $24. Or anchor nearby for $0. Others from $40 to $100. So to rent behind a home what is one going to pay? $20? $30? Now remind me again how that is attractive to a million dollar home owner? Maybe $8000 a year for a dependable boat owner is enough to make it worthwhile but not a nightly rate.