citizenship

[goat]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

A couple of points have come up in this thread that I want to address. First, most Americans love Canadians (and Mexicans for that matter) Their country is just under different management and has different challenges. I fear the violence south of the border, but the regular guy and gal down there is just fine. And believe me, most of the people of this forum are just regular people.
I am personally involved in working in the health care system here in the US. We do have some that skate by for free, but most people have a conscience and try to pay for what they owe. The price for health care in this country is outrageous, I have always tried to cut costs when it will not affect patient care.
Finally, some of us are embarrassed of the arrogant, large mouthed individuals in our country. We will work actively to keep them from becoming our leaders, and try to elect people with common sense, both on the local and national level.

Me too, but it's cold up here so I go to California anyway.

goat

[s/v Beth]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

That is true. There are no pure democracies in the world today. All of the governments that we call "democratic" are in reality some form of representative republic. They follow some form of a democratic process, but the government itself is not a true democracy.

Not to split hairs, but the Swiss Cantons of Appenzell Innerrhoden and Glarus have pure, direct democratic system. Small I know, but my family is from Glarus. They are part of the Swiss confederation but vote in their own laws, with every person have an equal stake.
Not practical from a large perspective, but I never said that the Swiss are practical in everything.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

That is true. There are no pure democracies in the world today. All of the governments that we call "democratic" are in reality some form of representative republic. They follow some form of a democratic process, but the government itself is not a true democracy.

If your prepared to acknowledge that, then why not consider it possible that the common definition of a democracy is correct and follow what the rest of the world already recognizes?

[Rustic Charm]

From the Oxford English Dictionary

1A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives:
a system of parliamentary democracy

[cards26]

I have to pay income tax twice each year to two countries, USA and Colombia. Further, I cannot claim my wife's 3 children as a deduction on my U.S. income tax. This is one reason why people renounce, and a very good reason.

There's been an increase in U.S. citizens renouncing lately, but that's because of FATCA, and the increase is mostly dual citizen Canadians that are caught up in this. Those Canadians don't have much to do with the States.

OP, you may have some problems entering the U.S. on a visa once you leave. Immigration officials can be awful moody....don't ask me how I know that.

You could check into residency within some other countries; in Uruguay, you can apply for residency when your plane lands. I had to wait 5 years to apply for residency in Colombia.

So you can collect Social Security as a non-citizen today? How about tomorrow?

Also figure in that health care may not be as good in your new country.

Even though I have very little to do with the States except paying taxes on my Colombian income, I wouldn't dream of giving up that passport.

[Clamdigger]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Complete bull. There's absolutely NO requirement to have been in any kind of zone at all for any length of time. Or to have had any of the other stuff you list done.

You REALLY think the Syrians crossing the Rio Grande en mass didn't have air fare to Mexico from across an ocean? Where did that come from? And someone who asked no questions selling them a one way ticket? Have you tried to buy a one way ticket lately? You'll get a whole lot more "vetting" than if you just flew into Mexico and walked, or drove, across.

Insulted? Gosh...what a shame. Too bad you feel it insulting to ask about a criminal record before letting someone in. Is this what they're teaching you at the mosque these days?

I think I'm getting pretty well fed up with Canadians and Brits telling Americans what they should or shouldn't do with their borders.

Why don't you just invite them all to BC where YOU can take care of the little darlings?

I'm with Cannibul on this one,. If you don't understand where he's coming from you need to do some homework. The Borders are'nt as 'tight' as you think they are just because you drive up to the 'Official ones'. How else did 30 million illegal aliens enter the USA?!

[Clamdigger]

Originally Posted by Canibul

I don't think we should be taking in any Syrian refugees at all. I think they should stay in Syria and clean up their own country.

As for how many Canada lets in, that's Canada's business. My concern is with the totally open US border and all the criminals and terrorists who are flowing across it.

Maybe Canada just needs a few more heads lopped off, throats cut, a little Sharia law to get with the program.

Again, I agree with your post. When Americans have to bend over to get *on* a plane to LEAVE for a 'vacation'; then I think ANYONE coming into the Country should have to be completely vetted before they are allowed to roam free in America!

Canada is just 'taking them in' so they can catch their breath before leaving for the USA where hard working TAXPAYERS will be FORCED to pay for their needs! And some of you want to know why a person wants to leave this Country?! How would you like it if I indiscriminately spent some of your HARD EARNED income every year on whatever I felt like without you being able to do anything about it?! Really? Democracy is dying a slow death in the USA these past years due to creeping Socialist politicians and no amount of voting seems to be reducing it. Donald Trump? Hell Yes! Maybe he'll run this Country like a business and turn it around! We're already bankrupt as a nation so what the Hell give the guy a chance.

[Clamdigger]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

I wonder what background check the Canadians will be doing on these Syrians? And how soon before they can freely travel into the USA?

Just wait and see.... The US govt tends to relocate these types in large groups to areas with the least 'moral resistance' IMO. Just ask the folks in MN how well they're absorbing the TENS OF THOUSANDS of Somali's they got shoved down their throats! As if all the resettled 'Hmong people' were'nt enough already. Until you've experienced it don't pass judgement on those who have. I'll never go back to Mnpls, even to visit my parents graves!

Guess not enough people could recall 'Blackhawk Down', until AFTER all the Somali's were among them!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Clamdigger

Again, I agree with your post. When Americans have to bend over to get *on* a plane to LEAVE for a 'vacation'; then I think ANYONE coming into the Country should have to be completely vetted before they are allowed to roam free in America!

Canada is just 'taking them in' so they can catch their breath before leaving for the USA where hard working TAXPAYERS will be FORCED to pay for their needs! And some of you want to know why a person wants to leave this Country?! How would you like it if I indiscriminately spent some of your HARD EARNED income every year on whatever I felt like without you being able to do anything about it?! Really? Democracy is dying a slow death in the USA these past years due to creeping Socialist politicians and no amount of voting seems to be reducing it. Donald Trump? Hell Yes! Maybe he'll run this Country like a business and turn it around! We're already bankrupt as a nation so what the Hell give the guy a chance.

Ah, you mean all the hard working American TAXPAYERS who were FORCED to pay for all the needless wars with their HARD EARNED income. Good point

BTW, given that Canada's social supports are much stronger and more extensive than the USA, your logic (if I can amusingly call it that) should make you feel very safe. Given what you say, the last thing the Syrian refugees will want is to go to the USA.

Reading your continued rants, I'm truly at a loss as to how I can respond to your bigoted and ignorant comments ... so I'll stop now.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Siberianhusky

Gave up my us citizenship long ago, best move I ever made, never missed it.
IMO the bigger question is why wouldn't you if you have the option?

Gave it up for citizenship where?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Clamdigger

Again, I agree with your post. When Americans have to bend over to get *on* a plane to LEAVE for a 'vacation'; then I think ANYONE coming into the Country should have to be completely vetted before they are allowed to roam free in America!

....

How do you vette some kid from a remote Afgahn village with effectively no public records or someone from Somalia with a failed government?

[Pelagic]

Morality is such a "subjective" thing, when you are talking about the safety and welfare of your family and loved ones vs Other's.

Living in 3rd world countries, i observe that morality is generally much more "utilitarian" where citizens will rationalize a guilt free mindset.... that they can cheat, rob even kill in order to survive..... anyone who threatens the welfare of their families.

Importing those wolves amongst the sheep is a transformational Darwinian experiment....

Personally.... I see the writing is already on the wall and we are all going to live in more interesting times.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Morality is such a "subjective" thing, when you are talking about the safety and welfare of your family and loved ones vs Other's.

Living in 3rd world countries, i observe that morality is generally much more "utilitarian" where citizens will rationalize a guilt free mindset.... that they can cheat, rob even kill in order to survive..... anyone who threatens the welfare of their families.
...

Yes, "morality" will likely become flexible in difficult circumstances. Place a high-minded Westerner in similar circumstances and they will ultimately do the same...in the end you will do what you need to in order to survive.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Yes, "morality" will likely become flexible in difficult circumstances. Place a high-minded Westerner in similar circumstances and they will ultimately do the same...in the end you will do what you need to in order to survive.

Your argument may have had some merit. However, your argument becomes null when you used "high-minded" to define hundreds of millions of people, and turned it into a bigoted rant.

[cards26]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Your argument may have had some merit. However, your argument becomes null when you used "high-minded" to define hundreds of millions of people, and turned it into a bigoted rant.

he's responding to the 'bigoted rant' above his comment, where pelagic states that third worlders are 'wolves'. certainly are a lot of wolves, but my wife and her family, character and morality wise, are far above the average person in north america.