citizenship

[bnb]

Thanks for all those that gave good resposes. Not particularly fond of those that had a misconception to my question.

[Canibul]

Trolls to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am...

[Moody46CC]

Someone posted some figures from Forbes, like about 1430 or so citizens in the first quarter of 2015 (a record), renounced their US citizenship. So about 6000 annually. Well, we have 330 million souls in the US, and if we say 300 million are citizens, 6000 is really not a lot of people.

One can receive social security in overseas locations but not Medicare, so you will have to have a health insurance plan unless you have some liquid assets. Or a bullet proof way of never getting ill. (If you have that and can manufacture it, assets will not be an issue.)

But you need citizenship in another country (which might want some taxes at some point) before ripping up the blue passport. As pointed out, you will not be admitted anywhere without a passport. You will have to sail somewhere--can't even get on an international flight without a passport.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Moody46CC

One can renounce US citizenship. A couple of hundred annually. Mostly people with whopping incomes trying to avoid taxes. A few who have married foreign nationals or other reasons, but not many.

At the risk of sounding chauvinistic, why would you want to? . . . .

Taxes. The U.S. has a unique regime of taxing its citizens on their worldwide income regardless of source of the income, or your residence. You can an exemption up to about 100k for salary income, and you get to offset foreign taxes paid, but for high income people or people living on investment income, it really sucks to be an American abroad.

I have a good friend who renounced his U.S. citizenship and became, of all things, a Swedish citizen. Hard to believe it but it's true that a socialist country like Sweden treats its entrepreneurs a lot better than we do ours. My friend says it's the best decision he ever made in his life.

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[Canibul]

We have a few friends here who have renounced, too. Mixed feelings from them.
Some are happy, some are not. I think a lot depends on whether you have a place you want to go TO, also. Like family in another country makes it easier.

[bnb]

Great bit of info. thanks

[matauwhi]

G'day, Mate. Do some research on the latest immigration requirements for New Zealand. It's a great place for a live aboard sailing lifestyle. Depending upon age, education, and financial resources, you might just be able to qualify for citizenship here. It will take up to at least 5 years.

And BTW, it is perfectly legal for a U.S. citizen to obtain citizenship in another country. The choice is yours whether you want to renounce the U.S. one or or not, but remember when doing so, you give up the right to reside permanently live in any of the 50 states there. I like keeping my options open.

All the best. Cheers.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by bnb

No, I do not have dual citizenship. I do not want to be a US citizen anymore. Do I have to be a citizen of any country? I currently have a US passport.

Practically yes you do. Impossible to travel legally with no passport (and dont believe all that Sovereign/World Citizen mumbo jumbo...its legally bogus).

I know a few who have renounced their citizenship. Big decision. Maybe significant tax implications (and I dont mean in a good way). And, pragmatically, you have to replace it with Citizenship somewhere else...so where is "better"?

[dwedeking2]

You don't have to renounce your citizenship to get out of the USA for a while. We're US citizens, for example, but have been legal residents of the Turks and Caicos for ten years.

This. I found it wasn't worth the effort to renounce as I just wasn't fond of the "society" in the US. Now that I'm back in the US I realize that this still holds true for me but I'm dealing with to build the kitty up before retiring.

Most of the people giving up citizenship have never lived in the US and derive no benefits from US citizenship. Yet they have to jump through hoops at some cost both in time and money to comply with IRS laws. They feel it's not worth it so renounce. Not really that big of a deal.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Canibul

We have a few friends here who have renounced, too. Mixed feelings from them.
Some are happy, some are not....

Even more difficult to reverse that decision I expect.

[Greenhand]

Originally Posted by bnb

No, I am not trying to get out of paying taxes. I am retired and right now just living off of social security. I use investment money for misc items when needed.

Last I knew, you could only receive SS if you are a US citizen. I know of a number of immigrants who paid into the system for decades, and only finally applied for citizenship in order to be able to collect SS at retirement.

As others have stated, it is quite difficult to be without citizenship, especially if you mean to travel. There is a UN stateless passport, but I believe the phrase "through no fault of their own" is often included in the description.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Moody46CC

.. .

One can receive social security in overseas locations but not Medicare, so you will have to have a health insurance plan unless you have some liquid assets. Or a bullet proof way of never getting ill. (If you have that and can manufacture it, assets will not be an issue.)
.. . .

In most of the developed world outside of the U.S., health care for legal residents is free or very inexpensive. It is just not the problem, for most people, like it is for us. What's really the kicker is that their taxes are often not more than ours are, and sometimes less. Your income taxes are for sure less in London, than they are in NYC, once you count local taxes.

We.live in a laissez-faire society, but pay socialist taxes. It's not a very good deal for many people.

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[svmariane]

Here's a little reading for you:

https://americansabroad.org/issues/s...-security-faq/

Of interest from that page is this:

Q: Do you lose your Social Security if you abandon your green card (permanent resident) status or renounce US citizenship?

A: Once you have renounced US citizenship, you become a non-resident alien (NRA), and the rules for NRAs apply. While it is your responsibility to notify authorities of your changed status, this is generally asked in the questionnaire that Social Security beneficiaries have to submit annually.

As an NRA, it depends on your place of residence whether you can continue to collect Social Security in the long run. Depending on a combination of US bilateral agreements (or lack thereof), your current citizenship, and your country of residence, it can range from only a minor tax difference to having Social Security payments discontinued after more than six months outside the US.

{The above is a snip from the rather long answer - click on the link to read the full response.}

Advice? Well, for what its worth:

*Contact a good attorney well versed in US Tax law.
*Take no precipitous action(s).
*Plan well.
*Acquire citizenship somewhere prior to renouncing US citizenship.
*Extricate your funds from the US to the maximum legal extent.
*Note that "pros & cons' depend on the individual and the circumstances. YMMV
*Be absolutely sure before you renounce.
Absolutely sure.
You might well discover why so many others are so desperate to acquire US citizenship - yet you yourself will be unable to reverse your decision.

Finally:
*Don't be foolish about this. Think hard.

And just for fun..... this: 10 Best Second Passports and Citizenship by Investment Programs - Premier Offshore Company Services {You don't need to buy their services, but the info is interesting. Bulgarian passport, anybody? }

[valhalla360]

I'm still not clear what the OP is trying to accomplish.

If it's tax savings, they tax everything on the way out. You may put your SS at risk if you aren't careful. This only works for the very rich who have accountants and attorneys to sort it out.

You won't get to keep your US Passport. Unless you have another residency lined up, it could be very difficult to get it as a stateless person. FYI: Dual Citizenship is technically illegal but they don't enforce it.

Please tell us what you are trying to accomplish.

[Drift Woods]

After reading this thread from its beginning. I've come to the conclusion that I could of made better use of my time.