citizenship

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by svmariane

...
And this: 10 Best Second Passports and Citizenship by Investment Programs - Premier Offshore Company Services {You don't need to buy their services, but the info is interesting. Bulgarian passport, anybody? }

As suggested there, Panama is a good option. Several different residency options. Their "Friendly Nations" visa is a very liberal option that is not wildly expensive (less than listed on the web site). Im in their residency process now, but have no intention of denouncing my USA Citizenship (though I know some here who have).

Several Central American countries have relatively easy and inexpensive residency options with a path to citizenship over time. Just flat out buying a passport in several CA countries used to be relatively easy and not wildly expensive (used to be $10K in Belize), but the USA has put pressure on CA countries to stop this practice...so its now much more expensive.

Obviously some folks who buy passports are not upstanding folk. I've known a few who bought passports because traveling on their home country passport would send them straight to jail.

Every country I know of is going to want at least a clean criminal background check and proof of adequate finances, for legitimate residency options. And, most foreign banks that accept accounts from Americans (some don't due to FATCA) comply with FATCA regulations.

Ive known several people in the past who tried to hide assets in offshore accounts...man, I bet they are sweating it now!

Hard to hide money or crimes from Uncle Sam these days (not implying that the OP is).

[Steven UK]

I know of couples who were working in the us and gave birth here. The kid was given a foreign (to the us) passport but the immigration officer gave the parents a hard time because his logic stated the kid being born in the us made him a citizen of the us. However us couples having kids outside the us automatically have kids as us citizens. The logic is different in different countries. Personally I have one nationality and two green cards. But I'm coincidring dual nationality to make life easier for my family, need to make sure it makes sense first though. Back to the subject in question you can apply for a second nationality if some one (country) will have you and give up or keep your current nationality depending on preference any host country laws. US has some unique tax laws that may make giving up citizenship attractive to some people, it also has good welfare which makes getting it attractive to some people...

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by Steven UK

I know of couples who were working in the us and gave birth here. The kid was given a foreign (to the us) passport but the immigration officer gave the parents a hard time because his logic stated the kid being born in the us made him a citizen of the us. However us couples having kids outside the us automatically have kids as us citizens. The logic is different in different countries. Personally I have one nationality and two green cards. But I'm coincidring dual nationality to make life easier for my family, need to make sure it makes sense first though.

You are making too complicated. If the kid was born in the US then mid is a US citizen and has to use a US passport to travel in/out of US. Most countries have such a rule. A second citizenship does not change that. That is why I carry both passports when I travel between my two countries of citizenship.


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[Steven UK]

Also as mentioned above by Belizesailer the immigration / green card process for the US... criminal background, financial, does the us actually need you?, and a visit to the clap Doctor (for all members of e family)...! Citizenship Generally worthwhile but not 100% sure about the old age healthcare though, bit scary

[hpeer]

I think ther is a lot of mistaken advice and opinion in this thread.

I'll just relate what I have experienced.

My Father was a US citizen.
My Mother was a Canadian citizen.
My Wife was born a German citizen.

Although Mother worked her whole life, until nearly 80, she never worked a "regular" job but almost always got paid under the table for house cleaning and domestic services. She had no SS on her own. She got her SS due to my Fathers employment. Bush (George I) tried to take that away but it went nowhere. So, yes, non-USA citizens can get SS.

I got Canadian citizenship because I was able to establish my relationship to my Mother and that she never had US citizenship. In Canada citizenship is (was at the time anyway, rules seem to change there frequently) through the maternal line. I have lived my entire life in the us although I visit Canada often.

The US Supreme Court has ruled (about 1968) that the US can grant or deny US citizenship, it can not force you to give up citizenship in another country.

Germany normally does not allow dual citizenship. My Wife had to renounce her German citizenship to become a US citizen.

I have known several folks whose parents were both US citizens but who were able to establish dual citizenship in Ireland due to their grandparents having Irish citizenship. It seems the Irish are rather free in granting citizenship.

At one time I consulted an immigration attorney over some immigration matters and was told, in no uncertain terms, that I could NOT hold dual US/Canadian citizenship. So I did not even try for quite a while until I met someone who did have dual Citizenship. Then I did my own homework and found the Lawyer was completly full and stuffed. It's really poor to go to a professional who advertises as an expert and get such missguided and just plain wrong information. Such are life's lessons.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by bnb

No, I do not have dual citizenship. I do not want to be a US citizen anymore. Do I have to be a citizen of any country? I currently have a US passport.

Much as I sympathise with the volition to be free of the bonds of statehood, and feel very much a libertarian on those grounds… the world is very far from that point just now, and becoming a "stateless person" carries with it enormous burdens and problems. It shouldn't, but it does.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Taxes. The U.S. has a unique regime of taxing its citizens on their worldwide income regardless of source of the income, or your residence. You can an exemption up to about 100k for salary income, and you get to offset foreign taxes paid, but for high income people or people living on investment income, it really sucks to be an American abroad.

I have a good friend who renounced his U.S. citizenship and became, of all things, a Swedish citizen. Hard to believe it but it's true that a socialist country like Sweden treats its entrepreneurs a lot better than we do ours. My friend says it's the best decision he ever made in his life.

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Now that's not a bad choice at all… (meaning becoming Swedish, not particularly abandoning the US although the worldwide tax regime does seem to miss some of the point of taxes in the first place) though I would prefer Norway if it were myself.

[s/v Beth]

Anybody here dual Swiss-US citizens? I understand I can apply for such, just wondering how it would work out.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by bnb

I just want to give up my citizenship, not the money I paid into my account.

You think you have an "account." That is just so cute.

[boatman61]

Head for the Med and apply for residency in Spain.. after a probationary period you can become a citizen.. if you bring a healthy bank account with you you'll get the red carpet.. 👍

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

You think you have an "account." That is just so cute.

Right up there with folks that think it is not stealing from the rest of us to get paid under the table.

TANSTFL

[ryon]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

You think you have an "account." That is just so cute.

^ What he said.

[belizesailor]

I know lots of folks (Guatemalan, Belizean, and Panamanian) who have dual citizenship.

[Simonsays]

Originally Posted by Drift Woods

After reading this thread from its beginning. I've come to the conclusion that I could of made better use of my time.

and why did you not say that at the beginning of the thread?
you could have saved everyone else some time to!
bloody egoists...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Steven UK

I know of couples who were working in the us and gave birth here. The kid was given a foreign (to the us) passport but the immigration officer gave the parents a hard time because his logic stated the kid being born in the us made him a citizen of the us. However us couples having kids outside the us automatically have kids as us citizens. The logic is different in different countries. Personally I have one nationality and two green cards. But I'm coincidring dual nationality to make life easier for my family, need to make sure it makes sense first though. Back to the subject in question you can apply for a second nationality if some one (country) will have you and give up or keep your current nationality depending on preference any host country laws. US has some unique tax laws that may make giving up citizenship attractive to some people, it also has good welfare which makes getting it attractive to some people...

Concerning dual citizenship:

Dual citizenship is technically forbidden in most countries and officially tolerated in all (that I'm aware of). The practical effect of it is that you must enter and leave a country whose passport you have, with that passport, and you cannot ask to be treated as a foreigner. It can make sense to have dual citizenship if you are a long term resident of X country and would like the benefits of citizenship, but you were born a citizen of Y country and don't want to give up that passport. As long as Y is not the US, there are rarely any disadvantages to keeping your old citizenship.

Citizenship of an EU country is a wonderful thing for anyone living long term in Europe -- you can live and work anywhere in the entire EU as a matter of right, you have access to health and other benefits, but you are not taxed on income earned while out of the EU or (generally speaking) on non-EU source income. It's pretty sweet. I don't have any EU passport because I have never stayed long enough in any one EU country, which is unfortunate for me. A lot of my American friends over here have UK passports, which you get almost automatically if you live in the UK five years (IIRC) on a residence permit.