citizenship

[zeehag]

united states of america was never a democracy nor was it intended to be one. the founding fathers set up checks and balances so common man coupd nOT electt hepresicdent as common man was not intellient enough to so do. electoral college is one check. th e type of government the founding fathers set up was called and is still called a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. NOT democracy.
people think it is one, but it is still not a democracy.
the checks and balances remain in place.

[woodenboats]

The only thing I hope for from the next U.S. Präsident is that if he closes US borders, then he should please do so in both directions. The US should take a time-out from the rest of the world - how about 100 years?

Sent from my Lenovo B8080-H using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[goat]

Originally Posted by woodenboats

The only thing I hope for from the next U.S. Präsident is that if he closes US borders, then he should please do so in both directions. The US should take a time-out from the rest of the world - how about 100 years?

Sent from my Lenovo B8080-H using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Don't hate.

[Iaangus]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

Deleted long reply probably because you knew your actual knowledge of the system in the UK was very poor and incidental. As is your likely knowledge of the "economy" as referenced in your original post. Perfect? There is no such thing, and referencing it as a standard is a canard and a strawman.

Slow? Only if you approach it with sniffles or some non urgent ailment. By and large if you are properly ill you are treated swifly and with some of the best treatments, conditions and staff anywhere in the world. I have witnessed this many times at first hand, both in acute trauma care of myself and long term cancer treatement for close friends and family, up to the terminal phase. Earlier this year I visited an old family friend, a woman in her mid 70s, dying of acute heart failure in the High Dependency Unit of the John Radcliffe hospital in Oxford. Her private room was immense, with (I counted) sixteen syringe drivers, ventilators, the latest monitoring and diagnostic equipment hung from a massive gantry in the ceiling, the whole absolutely state of the art and latest tech, with a curtained glass wall looking directly onto a nurses station manned 24/7 by numerous staff, whose attentiveness, professionalism and skill is second to none in the world. She was in there for the whole two and a half week period it took her to die. Cost of that to her and her husband? Nothing more than the taxes she paid.

My father was treated by the NHS for Mantle Cell Lymphoma. This cancer is (or was at the time) universally deadly. They gave him a 18 months of extremely healthy and fit life, before the inevitable relapse. He survived more than double the usual period for this illness, and his death took place in the ward dedicated to immunocompromised patients, at the Western General Hospital, Edinburgh. They allowed myself and my other close family members essentially to camp in the visitors room, which was pleasant and well equipped. His own surprisingly large private room had an ensuite toilet/shower room, its own fridge and a large window with a beautiful leafy outlook, as well as the most up to date equipment possible in such an environment. The staff were impeccable and their dedication, care, professionalism, and empathy were astonishing to behold. That three month period in that private room at the end of a comprehensively satisfactory two and three quarter year treatment period was at no charge to us or our family, other than the taxes we have paid and continue so to do.

Your comment that "it is not free" is typical of those who criticise such a socialised system, as if somehow we in the UK are a bunch of ingenues who have not the most basic understanding of economics or finance. I am FULLY AWARE that my taxes go to support the likes of this treatment to other people who I will never meet and about whom I know nothing and I am more than happy with that situation. It is one of the best things about the UK, and other systems like it. I am no socialist generally, and am rather right wing/libertarian when it comes to many issues. But socialised medical care for all and with guaranteed universal access is an absolute good. The insurance based system has its uses as an adjunct only but when it becomes the whole healthcare system, then healthcare is subordinated to profit, and a river of money flows out of the system and is lost to healthcare entirely, driving up the prices of everything extraordinarily. The US is the only nation excluded from "Worldwide Cover" on most international insurance policies, for a reason. It is just too expensive. You may or may not realise that we in the UK do not pay absurdly higher taxes than you do in the US. In some cases the opposite, and you still have to finance your own, uncertain healthcare privately and on top of that. As Tom Waits says: "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."

You really don't know what you are talking about with regard to the UK or other similar systems.

Get A life.

[Capt Phil]

I believe you are being a little harsh, Iaangus... My wife and I immigrated from countries that have had socialized medicine for many years paid for out of general tax revenue. It can be supplemented by private insurance if you wish the goodies attached to the premiums.
I have never understood why a country as wealthy as the US cannot afford to provide a basic health care to their most down and out citizens. I am told I am a conservative as is my wife but neither of us can figure out the system here. When Obamacare was being designed, the Grubers, et al, ran around and looked at the various government provided health care systems around the world and managed to cobble together everything that was wrong with socialized medicine and forgot to include the good parts! We deserve what we have by letting politicians design the system, not providers! Phil

[Steven UK]

This post is even more hilarious because I'm thinking of getting citizenship (dual) at the moment. International tax and medical are the main decision sticking points. I have more to gain from my US social than anywhere else though.

I can understand why there is a long line to get in though...

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Iaangus

Get A life.

Thanks for the confirmation of my assertions. As to having a "life" is it the length and detail of the response which disturbs? Would you have preferred the "dumbed down" version?

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by bnb

Hi CF,
Has anyone given up their U.S. citizenship?
What are the pros and cons?

{ahem}
Just a gentle reminder of the original thread topic.
And jingoism doesn't really add any value to the discussion.

[Lizzy Belle]

For those told to get a life or just want one: no worries, I'll send you one on Candy Crush

Meanwhile, the OP has eaten so much he must be getting tired of it.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by zeehag

united states of america was never a democracy nor was it intended to be one. the founding fathers set up checks and balances so common man coupd nOT electt hepresicdent as common man was not intellient enough to so do. electoral college is one check. th e type of government the founding fathers set up was called and is still called a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. NOT democracy.
people think it is one, but it is still not a democracy.
the checks and balances remain in place.

Firstly, I'm aware of the great many many pages on the internet debating this and claiming the US is not a democracy because the citizen's don't vote on laws or policy, but vote on representatives to decided such things on their behalf..

BUT, if that's not a democracy then there is no such thing as a democracy and even Australia, New Zealand, UK are not democracies.

But the US, Australia and many others ARE 'democracies' because the citizen's vote in the Government. thus the hall mark of what a democracy is.

If you really think that a democracy is where the citizen's vote on laws and policies, then how the hell would this work in a country the size of the US with it's 323 + Million people? It would take a fortunate to run a vote every time a law was needed or changed and very few laws would get passed.

Secondly, a constitutional republic is the form of democracy. Just like Australia and England is a constitutional monarchy and part of the commonwealth. India is a Federal Republic.. They are all types of democracies..

[Siberianhusky]

Gave up my us citizenship long ago, best move I ever made, never missed it.
IMO the bigger question is why wouldn't you if you have the option?

[s/v Beth]

A couple of points have come up in this thread that I want to address. First, most Americans love Canadians (and Mexicans for that matter) Their country is just under different management and has different challenges. I fear the violence south of the border, but the regular guy and gal down there is just fine. And believe me, most of the people of this forum are just regular people.
I am personally involved in working in the health care system here in the US. We do have some that skate by for free, but most people have a conscience and try to pay for what they owe. The price for health care in this country is outrageous, I have always tried to cut costs when it will not affect patient care.
Finally, some of us are embarrassed of the arrogant, large mouthed individuals in our country. We will work actively to keep them from becoming our leaders, and try to elect people with common sense, both on the local and national level.

[matauwhi]

Merry Christmas, Mates. SiberianHusky asks "the bigger question is why wouldn't you if you have the option?" I addressed this in my post early on in the thread. I trust l have a few more "laps" to complete around the sun and since I don't have the knowledge to predict the future, I am choosing to keep my options open to live in one of the 50 U.S. states again one day. With the New Zealand citizenship I also have the option to live in one of the 6 states in Australia. At present, neither of these other two countries is placing a burden on my lifestyle, and thus, I will NOT RENOUNCE (that is the correct terminology) my U.S. citizenship, at present. All the best. Cheers.

[Mirage35]

Originally Posted by Drift Woods

After reading this thread from its beginning. I've come to the conclusion that I could of made better use of my time.

Thanks. I was about to read the remaining pages but you talked me out of it.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

BUT, if that's not a democracy then there is no such thing as a democracy and even Australia, New Zealand, UK are not democracies.

That is true. There are no pure democracies in the world today. All of the governments that we call "democratic" are in reality some form of representative republic. They follow some form of a democratic process, but the government itself is not a true democracy.