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Old 30-11-2007, 11:52   #31
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Boat: Was - Passport 45 Ketch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevem4u View Post
don't whow where to post this so here it is.
Hi everyone herein, I’ve (just 67 me) been after a 36’ to 42’ bluewater long distance cruiser for some time now. As time goes on and my recent education widens (10 years in the old Navy, but no sailing, weather forecasting!) my tastes and what I wont in the outcome have narrowed. I don’t need the extra effort with a ketch. Of course my budget of around $150K is modest but I find some very good boats from around the 1980’s fit into that. In narrowing the range, I’ve started thinking that the boat should still be supported (makes it more expensive tho) but seems like that would be an asset when in far off harbors. I like the extra inside room of a C/C but some do it with aft CP. Most of all I prefer plenty of view outside but not too much to handle big water. So here I am looking at Moody’s, Island Picket’s, Hylas’s, who am I missing??? Also it’s frustrating reading the listings and they seem to expound on everything you can expect tied up, very few mention any thing about she sailing characteristics and that I’m very interested in. I don’t wont to be stuck cruising along at 6 kts when I could be doing 8kts comfortably in the other one I could have gotten if I had of known! Or dead in the water in light air and my buddy goes ghosting by me! So here I am open to suggestions from all and appreciate your impute!! SteveM
Hi Steve,

Don't cut yourself short by eliminating ketches or schooners. They are actually less work and offer more sail options for differing sea and weather conditions. Just think of a ketch as a sloop with an optional mizzen sail. If you don't like to use it, you don't have to. However, it is there if you'd like that option (it gets pretty boring out there sometimes, you may enjoy having something to play with). It's not like it's another thing that you have to learn to do. Just sail it like a sloop until you feel comfortable experimenting with the different options that a sloop doesn't offer. It took me years to figure out how to run a "mizzen staysail" (it's like a jib run forward of the mizzen mast for sailing off the wind). Once I did, I loved that option (I didn't even know that it existed until I saw it done on another boat). I cut the use of my mainsail in half and had more comfortable and fun passages. I eventually built a spinakker for the mizzen staysail (I forget what it is called). That was great fun and really added speed in light air.

I circumnavigated with a ketch and anytime that the breeze would get strong enough, I would get rid of my main and sail with a reefed headsail and full (or reefed) mizzen. It was comfortable, well balanced, much safer (didn't have to worry about the main if conditions worsened) and just about as fast. When going to windward, the boat could be balanced to steer herself.

The other thing that I thought that I would address with you. Cruising is not racing. The "Speed" of the vessel will matter little, trust me. I have done many long ocean passages from one island or continent to another, leaving and arriving at relatively the same time as the fastest and slowest boats in the fleet. The fact is, the average cruising speed for just about any long ocean passage is about 4kts. There will be times that you will do 8.5 and there will be more times that you will do 3. It's not about how fast that you can get there......it's about getting there....period.

Once you get "There" you'll be sitting around the anchorage, sharing a beer with other cruisers that may come in a day ahead or a day after. The point is......you're either there or you aren't.
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Old 30-11-2007, 13:13   #32
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Ok, for the original poster, go here- good discussion, fair list of boats to think about.


Mahina Expeditions

Now, I'll *ditto* everything bluerhapcity said. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt on a 54 foot , 55,000 lb sloop. I'm a little over 6'3 and around 230 and tho I could do it, it wasn't the most fun, and if you ever got even slightly injured, you'd have a helluva time making do. It's way more boat than any single hander would need, but of course there are ways of singlehanding bigger boats.. I will tell you tho, its not as much fun. You *sweat* a lot more worrying about making the right decisions at the right time and you got out day sailing less and less all the time.

Accordingly I've come down to a 44ft steel schooner which while more than I really need, makes for a very roomy, VERY strong, yet still manageable and fun platform. There are an awful lot of experienced blue water peeps out there that have settled into that 40 to 45 foot range as the optimum for a couple on a reasonable budget. The wealthy can always go talk to the Dashew's for instance but that's not your case as i understand it. If you're shopping for fibreglass, i'd stay far far away from cored hulls. As they get older they'll get a leak, the air gets in and the working hull becomes a *pump*, the airspace gets bigger then starts pulling in moisture..pretty soon the boat is sitting lower in the water etc...Every builder says they have the problem fixed..yeah right...they cut out the areas they can find water and either recore, or go back to solid- either way, its expensive as hell. In an older boat, solid hulls are the way to go if you're headed thousands of miles off the dock .

Since you've already had or sailed a 39? you should have a good idea of how much *stuff* you want to take, it really adds up and I can't count how many cruisers have started small and then progressively work their way in two or three feet LOD increments until they feel comfortable. The end number for most has been rising for some years now, but I think the 36 to 45 ish range sited is where you want to be.

As for cats? well, there are cat guys and mono guys and they don't seem to cross the aisles very often. You might go sail on someone's cat if you havn't to make sure you don't like them before settling back in mono mode

When looking at used boats, your surveyor is your god. Pay for a good one who knows the kind of boats you're looking at. Used boats that have been maintained/refitted/well equipped etc. are all over the place right now. You are in a buyer's market so good hunting, but be sure of what you are buying. Check the amount, quality, and condition of the cruising equipment on board. People forget what recommissioning an average condition used boat costs, its a LOT!!!. Buying one that has been kept and sailed well will return dividends long after you've done your cruising and swallowed the anchor.

good luck, oh, and consider steel if you are in a place where fibreglass is king. The prices are fractional for equal or more boat.
A solid steel hull makes for a very strong ship, and with the newer coatings can be very low maintenance. One that hasn't been maintained can be a nightmare. you'll want a competent ultrasound and survey.

seer.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRhapCity View Post
I basically single handed a 58 foot Tayana but the admiral was there in case of something unusual. My limiting factors were:

1. Too heavy of a dink to put on the foredeck without help. (Get an inflatable and you'll be OK.

2. I couldn't deploy the gangplank single handed.

2. The anchor was 85lbs. Borderline too heavy if you have to put it in a dink or work with it off the windlass.

3. Sails. Although they were powered furlers if I had to remove a sail it was a bit too heavy to take off the mast and fold for one person. If you have any problems with big sails at sea I think you'd get into trouble fast.

4. Docking. Due to the full keel of the Tayana the boat required a bow thruster. If I had to back up the boat without the thruster I had to go 2-3 knots to keep steerage. This required skill, good weather conditions and a little luck.

The moral here is that if any critical gear that helps your single hand breaks then you need to be able handle the manual system. That was the limiting factor on my boat. I definitely wouldn't recommend a 58 footer for a true single handers. It just wouldn't be fun.
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Old 30-11-2007, 13:30   #33
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Hi Kanani, is that Hawaiian? That’s where I am just now. Hay, very good info coming from the real sailing world and thanks! I take it you were singlehandeling your ketch? I’ve seen same very interesting C/C ketches but passed over them. They don’t seem to be making many of them these days, so their prices should be reasonable. I’ll go back and re-evaluate! You points on speed are a relief to not be so important, I can see I was placing too much emphasis on that, but I disagree about the beer, I’m a lime rickey or similar type of guy. So that given, what due you recommend I should be keeping an eye out for?? SteveM
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Old 30-11-2007, 13:57   #34
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One other thing

Steve, I see now you're in Hawaii. If you can bring yourself to consider flying around, down in San Diego, or over here in Florida, there are a TON of boats worth considering. in San Diego, you have a lot of the ones people bought, spent gillions of dollars and hours fixxing up, then got into some weather on the coast on their way down to Mexico and bailed at San Diego leaving a lot of attractive opportunities.

Here in Florida, you have the same phenom coming down the East Coast and first passage euros..deciding once is enough hehehe. In the marina where I'm sitting at the moment, there must be ten or twenty boats in the 32 to 45 foot range that are fully equipped cruising boats and are just sitting in storage area for sale, and for far less than your expressed budget.......

there are tons of availables in your price range, take your time, and be picky.

seer
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Old 30-11-2007, 14:20   #35
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Originally Posted by stevem4u View Post
Hi Kanani, is that Hawaiian? Thatís where I am just now. Hay, very good info coming from the real sailing world and thanks! I take it you were singlehandeling your ketch? Iíve seen same very interesting C/C ketches but passed over them. They donít seem to be making many of them these days, so their prices should be reasonable. Iíll go back and re-evaluate! You points on speed are a relief to not be so important, I can see I was placing too much emphasis on that, but I disagree about the beer, Iím a lime rickey or similar type of guy. So that given, what due you recommend I should be keeping an eye out for?? SteveM
Steve,

Kanani is Hawaiin. I spent several years in Hawaii (Keehi Lagoon) and she was registered there. I was the Service Manager at Mike Salta Pontiac from '88-'93. We then left on our 2nd circumnavigation.

Walk around the marinas and Keehi lagoon. You may be surprised how many boats that are for sale. I once bought a CT41 from a couple for $10K. They got to Hawaii and hated sailing, hated the boat and hated each other. I cleaned it up and re-sold it for $45K. Sure helped the cruising kitty.

No disrespect to my wife (bravest woman I ever met) but I was a single-hander with a cook and companion. I took care of everything above decks and she took care of the "Household". That was simply our agreement and we were both happy with it (it worked for us). Having said that, I was injured at sea once on a 7,000 mile passage from Cape Town, South Africa to Annapolis, MD. My wife single handed for 10 days while I got back on my feet.

Where are you located in Hawaii?
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Old 30-11-2007, 14:43   #36
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Hi Kanani, I'm on the windward side in Waimanalo, its quiet over here, that's why I need a boat! You have a point, I havenít looked very hard at the inventory here so guess I had better start doing that. Since I'm not in a marina I won't have the first look advantage you had. You know how it is, you always hear about the great deal the other guy made. But I'll start looking here also, it only makes since, costs a lot to bring a boat all the way over here, I could never get off work log enough to do! SteveM
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Old 30-11-2007, 15:53   #37
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Hay Seer,
Ya, but wading through all the data on line takes a lot of time, we don't have a lot of inventory to look at first hand over here. (you read about the deplorable conditions of our main harbor here?) There are some beautiful boats out your way so picking the one with the best price but with all the goodies onboard (no dishwashers or washer-dryers needed) is what takes the research, but I've got the time and its fun. what do you think of these guys? http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?&units=Feet&currency=USD&ro=4&r=17 65537&rs=yachtworld.com&rt=Center%20Cockpit,%20Cru iser&boat_id=1765537&checked_boats=1765537&cint=10 0&cint=101&cint=116&cint=312&cint=327&cint=322&cin t=273&cint=274&cint=255&cint=256&cint=328&cint=329 &cint=257&cint=287&cint=302&cint=331&toPrice=12000 0&fromYear=1980&Ntk=boatsEN&hmid=0&sm=3&enid=0&luo m=126&currencyid=100&cit=true&boatsAddedSelected=-1&fromLength=35&ftid=0&man=Corbin&slim=quick

OR THIS ONE

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

OR THIS ONE

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?&units=Feet&currency=USD&ro=23&r=1 723511&rs=yachtworld.com&rt=Center%20Cockpit,%20Cr uiser&boat_id=1723511&checked_boats=1723511&fromYe ar=1987&Ntk=boatsEN&hmid=0&sm=3&enid=0&luom=126&cu rrencyid=100&cit=true&boatsAddedSelected=-1&fromLength=55&ftid=0&man=roberts&slim=quick

SteveM

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Old 30-11-2007, 16:29   #38
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Hay Seer,

OR THIS ONE

View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com

SteveM
That Roberts 44 is sweet boat. Bet he'd negotiate that price (a lot).

I love the chainplates bolted though the hull. The interior of that boat is gorgious.
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Old 30-11-2007, 19:06   #39
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Those are all nice boats. You could be aggressive on negotiations. I would establish that the rudder has been modified /or built to comply with Robert's revised plans should that apply on that model.

One thing I think you should consider, but that's just me, is a pilothouse or at least some sort of hard dodger. There are many who disagree, but to me open cockpits are like taking the steering in a pickup out of the cab and putting it in the bed. It's lots of fun...for a while....


If you ever intend to get out of the tropics, you will remember this advice. Whether you take it or not.

seer
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