Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2014, 21:40   #1
Registered User
 
John413's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Fountaine, Bahia & 46'
Posts: 87
Images: 2
Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

Boat owners RICH and not so call for help with experience to help them get from point A - B for little to no pay often.... Often it happens.. Why is that? I got my sea time & masters captains ticket and learn fast what a owner of millions of dollar boats valued my help at.
A friend who is capt too, got paid for helping relocate boat and owner.. Some saw it as good money. Minimum wage for long shift and expected to fix if there was a problem.
An other friend who is a captain and services boat aka yachts, called to drop others work to help and was told would meet at anchor in an hour. Only to find the boat NOT there and still 5 miles out at sail. Owner of $$$ boat with no sea tow or boat US. WHY IS THAT? Can afford the yacht / boat, but not the rest. I'm NOT the sharpest knife, but I have bought sea tow for my back up plan. The cost was less that $150 and well worth it, even if not used. I'm not rich, but not ......

I've read the crewing posting for needed and wanting, yet crew is treated with so disrespect.

Why is it so little money for so much responsibility ?

Test the waters and welcome feed back from owners and crew alike. Lol, to get my car worked on the shop post $95 an hour. I'm not driving a millionnnnn dollar car or even on worth a few 100 thousand.....

Anyway..... Looking for feed back and maybe more understanding for those who get you there... Hope this is not to out there and kicked off
__________________

__________________
John413 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 22:00   #2
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

Econ 101

The law of supply and demand.

Learn it.

Know it.

Live it.
__________________

__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 23:03   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Montegut LA.
Boat: Now we need to get her to Louisiana !! she's ours
Posts: 3,421
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

My old daddy told me. "If ya think the pays to low for the work, don't take the job!!" Simple !!
__________________
Bob and Connie
bobconnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 23:38   #4
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 4,812
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

Perhaps the price is low as the supply of people willing to work on large yachts for small change is huge. While car repairs may be billed at $95 or more, you can bet the guy turning the wrench is not getting that and might only get $20/ hour or so.
__________________
sailorchic34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 23:45   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,359
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
My old daddy told me. "If ya think the pays to low for the work, don't take the job!!" Simple !!
Good point and the problem exists both with owners and crew. While there are those out there willing to crew for far below a reasonable market, then it does cause a lot of market disruption and unreasonable expectations by owners. I see this even more in sailing where some large sailboat owners almost act as if the crew shouldn't even charge as if it's a vacation.

However, I don't understand the owners either. They get burned over and over by crew willing to take less than they should to get the jobs. That's not saying all the low priced crew is bad, but on the whole the best captains and crew are able to make a good living without cutting price.

I also think it's a matter of respect. If owners don't respect the skills crew members bring then there's a real problem. They should put them at the highest level of respect since their lives are even in the crews hands. Still there is a portion of the owner's group that wants to pay a good wage to get the best crew possible.

All I can say is:

To Crew: Don't undersell yourself. You're doing both yourself and the industry a disservice.

To Owners: As most owners hiring crew have very expensive boats, then don't turn around and be cheapskates. It's like going to a fine restaurant and stiffing the waitress. If you can't afford to pay the crew decently then perhaps you should have gotten a less expensive boat. Let me assure you that paying and hiring the best will repay you many fold. First, you'll have more enjoyable times on the water. Second, you'll see your overall costs of boating actually decrease through their efforts as competent professional crew.
__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 05:46   #6
Registered User
 
Fiveslide's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Boat: JBW club 420, MFG Bandit, Snark
Posts: 602
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

As crew, I wasn't expecting to (and didn't) make a ton of money on my first few. I showed up, we got the boat where they wanted it, I went home with very little money, a really small amount. I was fine with that.

My last one is what entirely turned me away from being hired for crewing. The boat shows up with crash damage and other systems in serious disrepair. I fixed it all, with very little help from the hired captain, and went to sea for 11 days, another 3 days at the destination fixing what broke on the trip. So I spent a little over 3 weeks dedicated to this boat and got paid $900 in the form of a check that I was asked not to cash for a week or so.

The captain called in early April, I assume for help sailing some boats back, I never returned the call.

I don't need the money, I wanted the experience, and for that all those trips were priceless, but I know when I'm being used for the gain of others and I think there are better rides to the islands to be had.

I would crew again if the right opportunity showed itself. Perhaps for an experienced owner of a proper boat to a destination I like, but not for hire again.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Fiveslide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 06:07   #7
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,949
Images: 6
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
However, I don't understand the owners either. They get burned over and over...
Exactly. First you hear the owner of a boat, 10 times as expensive as I could ever afford, whining about how hard it is to find good crew, and the next minute you see that they expect the crew to work for peanuts, or maybe even to pay them!

Pay peanuts, get monkeys. That always has, and always will, be the most fundamental rule of employment.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 08:04   #8
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

I am on both sides of this particular coin. I work on vessels as a professional captain. I also own a vessel that I am in the process of refitting. I have had a very hard time finding people to help me with the work, that A. have a clue about how to work on the boat. B. Have a decent work ethic, that don't need to be watched over all the time. I pay a fair cash wage. On the professional side, I will not work cheap and turn down jobs that expect that. On the owner's side, I expect diligence and a good work ethic for the agreed upon wages.
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 14:17   #9
Marine Service Provider
 
xsboats's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St.Augustine ,Fl., USA
Posts: 204
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Econ 101

The law of supply and demand.

Learn it.

Know it.

Live it.
As a professional captain, I can tell you that it's hard to compete with free. That being said, a majority of the deliveries that I do , that originated on this forum, were started by "free" captains and crew. As long as people are willing to give themselves away free of charge, to gain experience, owners will continue to utilize them. When the trip loses it's Hollywood appeal, many head for the showers , leaving the delivery to the rest of us. Put a price on your value aboard a boat and stick with it ! Your ship will come in .
__________________
xsboats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 14:24   #10
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

I've heard that "you get paid not what you are worth, but what you are able to negotiate."
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 14:49   #11
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

If I was doing a passage and someone wanted to come along to get miles that could be OK.... But they would be paying me for the privilege. Its my boat, my investment and my home.

Otherwise if you want to go sailing buy your own boat.

If its about professional delivery crew then the market hasnt changed for years and I would refer you back to

Quote:
My old daddy told me. "If ya think the pays to low for the work, don't take the job!!" Simple !!
__________________
Bob and Connie
And if theres no jobs in an industry go back to school and retrain for something else.
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 14:51   #12
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,202
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

Had one owner that had approached me for a quote.. then opted for a 'Chancer' from the Algarve who dumped him 40miles down the coast and bullied the money out of him before disappearing..
Got the impression he was a still bit bitter about it as we were passing Sardinia when he referred to us Delivery Skippers as "Whore's of the Sea'...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 15:04   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,359
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

One thing I would have to ask any of those talking about crewing once and it not working out or being underpaid is examine your own credentials. What licenses or certifications do you have? What does your resume look like? Yes, it is a business. When you start into an industry and want to be treated like a professional, then showing that you are one is very essential. Yes, I know you can learn it all with no classes, no tests, no licenses, no STCW. But those things are essential to gain entry into the better paying positions.

Just on that point. In Fort Lauderdale, there are hundreds of wannabe stews. Some with experience, some not. Some have no training, others have gone to school, picked up at least their STCW-95. Many have taken other courses. Some have even learned other complementary skills. Some do little to find a job. Some live in crew houses, look at the boards daily, circulate in the crew community, make contacts.

Now as a Captain or Owner or Chief Stew, you're ready to hire. Your single biggest concern with newcomers is are they serious about this as a profession or do they just see it as something fun to do until they decide what they want to do. The way used to try to determine that is what have they done to prepare themselves.

We try to hire the best and pay accordingly. However, the guy who just walks up wanting to be a deck hand but has no courses, nothing at all to show he's serious about it, not even his STCW-95. He's not going to get considered. He will get advised to show he's serious and come back and them we might talk.

If it's for a sail boat then what experience do you have on one? If none or little, go take some lessons. I don't care if you're just going to be scrubbing the decks, show some initiative. Learn what you can about sailing. I've seen some who have no experience and know nothing about sailing and actually one approached an owner and said, "I figured it would be a way for me to learn, to get training, while earning a little money." The owner just looked puzzled and then said, "So you want me to train you and pay you? I would think training is something you'd pay for." Now, yes, obviously one does get training on the boat but you're also expected to be prepared to do the job.

And yes, we had a stew on her first charter and then she was hired. But in addition to being an incredible worker she had completed her STCW Basic Safety Training course, an interior operations course, a first aid course and a massage course.

And my message to owners is reward good crew. Respect and encourage them. Pay them as the deserve. But even more treat them as they deserve.
__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 15:13   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paradise
Boat: Various
Posts: 2,359
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Had one owner that had approached me for a quote.. then opted for a 'Chancer' from the Algarve who dumped him 40miles down the coast and bullied the money out of him before disappearing..
Got the impression he was a still bit bitter about it as we were passing Sardinia when he referred to us Delivery Skippers as "Whore's of the Sea'...
That insanity always amazes me. If I'm wanting a boat delivered, I'm going to look over credentials, reputation, experience. In the overall scheme of things what I'm paying the delivery captain is so minimum compared to the total situation. Just in using typical means of classifying jobs in pay ranges, a "delivery skipper" is a high risk job where both the skipper and others lives are at risk based on the performance of the skipper. That takes the job way up the scale. Also risk of losing the boat, $1 million - $100 million. I wonder if these same people would have a 14 year old kid move their Maserati across country because it would be cheaper. Will your insurance approve this captain? Bet they don't even ask. Let's see...you need a ring taken to the jewelry store. Don't get a bonded courier. Step out front and hand it to the next person who passes and says they're willing for $5.
__________________
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 15:21   #15
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Why is it we are devalued ? We being crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
One thing I would have to ask any of those talking about crewing once and it not working out or being underpaid is examine your own credentials. What licenses or certifications do you have? What does your resume look like? Yes, it is a business. When you start into an industry and want to be treated like a professional, then showing that you are one is very essential. Yes, I know you can learn it all with no classes, no tests, no licenses, no STCW. But those things are essential to gain entry into the better paying positions.

Just on that point. In Fort Lauderdale, there are hundreds of wannabe stews. Some with experience, some not. Some have no training, others have gone to school, picked up at least their STCW-95. Many have taken other courses. Some have even learned other complementary skills. Some do little to find a job. Some live in crew houses, look at the boards daily, circulate in the crew community, make contacts.

Now as a Captain or Owner or Chief Stew, you're ready to hire. Your single biggest concern with newcomers is are they serious about this as a profession or do they just see it as something fun to do until they decide what they want to do. The way used to try to determine that is what have they done to prepare themselves.

We try to hire the best and pay accordingly. However, the guy who just walks up wanting to be a deck hand but has no courses, nothing at all to show he's serious about it, not even his STCW-95. He's not going to get considered. He will get advised to show he's serious and come back and them we might talk.

If it's for a sail boat then what experience do you have on one? If none or little, go take some lessons. I don't care if you're just going to be scrubbing the decks, show some initiative. Learn what you can about sailing. I've seen some who have no experience and know nothing about sailing and actually one approached an owner and said, "I figured it would be a way for me to learn, to get training, while earning a little money." The owner just looked puzzled and then said, "So you want me to train you and pay you? I would think training is something you'd pay for." Now, yes, obviously one does get training on the boat but you're also expected to be prepared to do the job.

And yes, we had a stew on her first charter and then she was hired. But in addition to being an incredible worker she had completed her STCW Basic Safety Training course, an interior operations course, a first aid course and a massage course.

And my message to owners is reward good crew. Respect and encourage them. Pay them as the deserve. But even more treat them as they deserve.
Let me fix that for you.

There are more folks looking for jobs than jobs looking for folks to fill them.
__________________

__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crew

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why, why, does my head smell so bad while sailing? ileestma Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 12 09-06-2012 20:17
I just dont get it - Why? Why St Thomas? SweetSerenity Atlantic & the Caribbean 67 12-05-2012 19:30
420: Why Are the Hybrids Being Converted to Diesel ? bryguy67 Lagoon Catamarans 6 26-09-2011 12:09
What Does Being a 'Good' Crew Mean fishwife General Sailing Forum 30 07-09-2010 12:24
It's Official - 2010 Is 'Quit Being a Mariner and Start Being a Sailor Again' Michael D Meets & Greets 2 19-10-2009 16:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:14.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.