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Old 30-12-2015, 11:16   #721
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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No need to be sorry she wasn't and as far as the climate scientists working at universities that is true but where does the funding come from? Now how long do you really think a climatologist would be kept on the payroll if thy didn't at least help keep the funding comming in.
The skeptics do get funding. I have pointed this out repeatedly.

BTW - professors are tenured.
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Old 30-12-2015, 11:17   #722
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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The carbon tax is supported by many conservative:

Conservatives

including the American Enterprise Institute.

WRW politicians are playing on the cynical, anti-government attitudes of your citizens.
Yes, you've already mentioned that some form of a carbon tax is gaining wider support across the political spectrum. It's also lost a lot of support, in part for the reasons transmitterdan previously described.

Politicans from both sides are always playing on their respective constituencies' cynicism & fear. Plenty of misinformation from both sides as we've clearly seen in just this thread.

WRW??
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Old 30-12-2015, 11:26   #723
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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The skeptics do get funding. I have pointed this out repeatedly.

BTW - professors are tenured.
Yes they are tenured but they are not immune from being terminated. Ifhe boss wants you gone they will find a way.
Yes skeptics are funded . So if a supporter of cc were to suddenly become a skeptic he/she would need to find a position where their views would be funded. And the reverse would be true as well . Then there is the uncertainty of finding that position for the basicly unknown climatoligist.( the biggest question on his/her mind would be how to feed my family in the interim between jobs) so they tow the line out of necessity not belief.
The exacts of which we will never know.
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Old 30-12-2015, 11:32   #724
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Can we see evidence of that evidence? I know Curry is claiming she is no longer a member of the tribe, but she left the tribe some time ago.

It is your assertion which requires your evidence.
The most recent that comes to mind was the congressional hearing on Dec. 10th where Curry, Christy, & Happer testified. I know, I know, a bit of a Ted Cruz-For-President dog & pony show, but the testimony was real, as was the presence of retired Admiral Titley making an effective case for AGW, along with a panel of loyal opposition Dems to cross-examine. Available for viewing, in whole or in part, on C-SPAN & youTube.

Just look at what happened to Happer, and the vitriolic commentary on Curry's website. You yourself have tried making pariah's or otherwise discrediting some of the skeptics & "Deniers." Are you now suggesting that such discrediting is not going on in academic & institutional settings? There are other articles I've read about this over the years, including the complacent role of the mainstream media. But like many of your linked articles, they generally have a political bias.
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Old 30-12-2015, 11:32   #725
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Don't know yea or nay about firings, but there has certainly been evidence presented of denial of career advancement, reduced or lost funding, and ostracization. May or may not be credible, but such evidence has been publicly presented.

But maybe more significant are the inducements in the form of peer pressure, grants, career advancement, professional prestige, and heavy political influence.
You would like us to believe that the majority of climate scientists have been subjected to pressures to do bad science... and they have all capitulated.

This is my sticking point. It's simply not rational to accept that an entire branch of science is bent, and a bunch of outsiders are smart enough to call them on it. Has the US government - with the largest and most advanced security and intelligence services on the planet - been duped by climate scientists? Really?

There is a set of outsiders (fossil-fuel lobby and friends) working overtime to make it appear like there are actual problems with the science. There's over $500B of tax breaks and subsidies at stake. Are you saying you think that this group is more reliable and less likely to lie to you than climate science?

I cannot see why it's so believable that it's the scientists who are trying to mislead us. When smart people like, well most everyone in the thread, have bought into this...

[edit] You know, I'm willing to bet that the main pressures within the climate science community are actually in the opposite direction; to ensure that every assertion and prediction is without hype or editorializing, and that the predictions are conservative and well-supported, because they know they are going to be in the spotlight over anything they say. As they have been.
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Old 30-12-2015, 11:46   #726
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Labeling, stereo-typing, and simplistic generalizations are never helpful. Just here on a sailing forum, we've already heard from sailorchic with an engineering/science background who calls herself a liberal but has some skepticism about AGW.
Not really a science background, though I ponder parts of physics and astro-physics a bit. I grok some bits of engineering.

Having worked with engineering models for some many years, I know that ahydraulic model of say a large chilled water or condenser water system, only approximates the actually losses and flows in a complex piping system.

The actual flows and losses are at best close to that calculated. Two different engineers may come up with two difference answers. Mine turned out to be the right answer...;-). That is for a fairly simple system to model with known properties for both the fluid, metals and equipment. Just a few hundred variables. Easy-peasy compared to climate modeling

Climate and in theory climate models are millions of times more complex then a simple 10,000 ton chiller system. Yet, people take the models as the gospel truth, even though some of the data is nothing more then assumptions, which is to say a guess.

Solar output is one example. The sun varies by just 0.1 percent over the 11 year solar cycle. Yet only recently have we found that different wavelengths of solar output vary far more, 20 fold more. I am waiting for additional data from newer satellites launching in the next few years which should help shed light () on the subject.
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Old 30-12-2015, 11:48   #727
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Yes they are tenured but they are not immune from being terminated. Ifhe boss wants you gone they will find a way.
Yes skeptics are funded . So if a supporter of cc were to suddenly become a skeptic he/she would need to find a position where their views would be funded. And the reverse would be true as well . Then there is the uncertainty of finding that position for the basicly unknown climatoligist.( the biggest question on his/her mind would be how to feed my family in the interim between jobs) so they tow the line out of necessity not belief.
The exacts of which we will never know.
Lots of vague assertions with no evidence.
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Old 30-12-2015, 11:54   #728
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

I don't think there is a lot of doubt over the science of climate change.

I think the problem is more a political one, where both sides are trying to angle in on some political advantage from it, and catching citizens and voters in the middle.

Does calling people "deniers" help anything? No. It simply forces the other party to dig in their heels, and makes them less likely to compromise on some kind of solution. But politicians do it because it's popular with their supporters.

If people actually want to do something about the climate, they should stop trying to use it to support their own partisan politics, and forcing people to "choose sides". Look at the issues, and not the political optics.

Like with most issues, there is sensible policy on this, and if we work hard at it, I think we can make some progress.

You want to do something about it? Stop driving SUVs. Get an electric car or a hybrid. Stop driving so fast. Use less electricity. Go solar.

We'll get a lot further if we stop playing politics with this issue.
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Old 30-12-2015, 11:56   #729
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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The most recent that comes to mind was the congressional hearing on Dec. 10th where Curry, Christy, & Happer testified. I know, I know, a bit of a Ted Cruz-For-President dog & pony show, but the testimony was real, as was the presence of retired Admiral Titley making an effective case for AGW, along with a panel of loyal opposition Dems to cross-examine. Available for viewing, in whole or in part, on C-SPAN & youTube.

Just look at what happened to Happer, and the vitriolic commentary on Curry's website. You yourself have tried making pariah's or otherwise discrediting some of the skeptics & "Deniers." Are you now suggesting that such discrediting is not going on in academic & institutional settings? There are other articles I've read about this over the years, including the complacent role of the mainstream media. But like many of your linked articles, they generally have a political bias.
Happer got caught offering to write an article, hide the funding and fake a peer-review.

When Peter Glieck got caught, he resigned his position - as he should.

Cuccunelli tried to discredit Mann, and failed.

Meanwhile in Canada and Alberta we elect governments that are takin a leading role in dealing climate change.
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Old 30-12-2015, 12:03   #730
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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You would like us to believe that the majority of climate scientists have been subjected to pressures to do bad science... and they have all capitulated.

I cannot see why it's so believable that it's the scientists who are trying to mislead us. When smart people like, well most everyone in the thread, have bought into this...
No, more like they have been trained to accept the mantra that only man's affect on climate has changed the climate. There are tons of scientists and engineers, pretty smart people, both climate and otherwise who disagree with AGW, or rather the extent that is AGW. Oddly they cannot get a paper published. AGW has almost become a religion, where the only question is how high the temperature will rise.

The realities are nothing we can or will do today or in the next 20-30 years will change the outcome. A 20% reduction in human co2 will not accomplish anything. We would need to reduce human derived c02 by 60-70% to really make a dent and that will not, can not happen.
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Old 30-12-2015, 12:05   #731
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Lots of vague assertions with no evidence.
Re read my last two sentences I admit it may be vague but that is due to fear of not being able to support ones family so they tow the line . The most interesting part I have seen in this thread is that most of t known climate scientists that change from pro agw/mmgw to anti agw/mmgw are retired or close to retirement. ( this has been mentioned several times over the last many pages of this debate. Now I'm not in either camp I have no horse in the race. So I personally don't care what happens in 50 or more years. ( Iwon't be here by then).
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Old 30-12-2015, 12:05   #732
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Climate change won't matter in twenty years because we will be too busy worrying about more immediate concerns, like how screwed up the environment got while we were too busy worrying about climate change and ignored the myriad of other ways we were destroying our planet.

Want some swordfish tartar to go with your northern white rhino steak? Good luck with that!
Well put.

Overfishing, deforestation, rampant consumption and landfill disposal, commuting solo in peak hour traffic, etc etc. All these issues are far more important than a 2 deg temp rise in a 100 years.

We cant reliably predict the weather more than 3 days out so calling climate modelling science is complete bs. Science requires you to conduct experments to validate or refute an hypothesis.

Carbon taxes and climate agreement are about as effictive as a chocolate teapot.

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Old 30-12-2015, 12:11   #733
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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So you think the US Federal government is knowingly lying or distorting the importance of CC?

(gummint haters, no need to respond; you are already on record about this)
No. I simply responded to your statement that only "unofficial" statements claim climate change would be catastrophic.

Clearly that claim was wrong, as Kerry's statements make very clear. There are myriad other such official statements...I simply picked one to show the error of your statement.
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Old 30-12-2015, 12:19   #734
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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No, more like they have been trained to accept the mantra that only man's affect on climate has changed the climate.
By 'they' do you mean climate scientists? if so, it's still just another way of saying you think they're all acting 'contrary' to science.
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Old 30-12-2015, 12:22   #735
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Most climate scientists work at universities.
Heh. Whooda thunk?
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