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Old 29-12-2015, 09:36   #631
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Does the SS article accurately reflect the content of the links?
Are the links relevant? Let's take a look at your three examples:

Meehl - just more GCCM model simulations using assumed climate sensitivity as they were believed to be 13 years ago, plus a limited range of other forcings And we know how accurate these models have proved to be.

IPCC: The entire IPCC WG1 Chapter 2. What specific part of that tome are they referencing.

Charlson et al:
A 1990 paper looking at SO4 in the northern hemisphere. Two key points:
1. It states that SO4 forcing is approximately equal and opposite to CO2 but "we estimate that these results are within a factor of about 2 of reality". IOW, they have no idea of whether the SS argument of "aerosols overwhelming the warming trend" is reasonable or not.

2. The study does not look at historical records for the period 1940-1970 at all. It is just an estimate of the SO4 forcing in the 1980s which is NOT the subject of the SS article.

Yep, typical SS abuse of irrelevant/misleading links.

Which is why I generally don't waste my time debunking SS articles.
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Old 29-12-2015, 10:06   #632
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Here's yet another scientist who has become sceptical, with his reasons which are well worth reading.
(Adjunct professor at Compton College, Santa Monica College, El Camino College, and Loyola Marymount University teaching Physics, Mathematics, Astronomy, and Earth Science._

The Most Comprehensive Assault On 'Global Warming' Ever | Daily Wire
I will see your adjunct professor and raise you a Professor in the
Department of Physics at the University of California at Berkeley, and Faculty Senior Scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, associated with the Institute for Nuclear and Particle Astrophysics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/op...ptic.html?_r=0
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Old 29-12-2015, 10:20   #633
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
And Lewandowsky's (et al) rejoinder to Dixon and Jones

The robust relationship between conspiracist cognition and rejection of (climate) science

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This is fun.
HA! I always benefit from your posts, Gord, in agreement or not.

Ironically, it sounds like "conspiracist ideation" might be another one of those conspiracy theories the skeptics & "Deniers" are so often accused of perpetrating, but this time it's coming from the other side. It does lend itself to the point that peoples' own background, orientation, outlook & personal politics play a role, but that's also true for both sides!
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Old 29-12-2015, 10:51   #634
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I will see your adjunct professor and raise you a Professor in the
Department of Physics at the University of California at Berkeley, and Faculty Senior Scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, associated with the Institute for Nuclear and Particle Astrophysics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/op...ptic.html?_r=0
Well, we've seen pro-AGW scientists turn into skeptics, so why not now a skeptic converted to pro-AGW? Well-written piece, and at least the author acknowledges that the "large, complex global climate models, the huge computer programs . . . are notorious for their hidden assumptions and adjustable parameters."

The author also rejects the more alarmist claims such as those related to large weather events & the decline of polar bears, for example (sorry Al G., Obama, etc., etc., etc.):

"I still find that much, if not most, of what is attributed to climate change is speculative, exaggerated or just plain wrong. Iíve analyzed some of the most alarmist claims, and my skepticism about them hasnít changed."

Instead, he focuses on the causal relationship b'twn. CO2 specifically & warming, which he emphasizes are critically dependent on reliable ways of taking the Earth's temperature. Round & round we go . . . .
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Old 29-12-2015, 10:54   #635
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I will see your adjunct professor and raise you a Professor in the
Department of Physics at the University of California at Berkeley, and Faculty Senior Scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, associated with the Institute for Nuclear and Particle Astrophysics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/op...ptic.html?_r=0
Muller of BEST fame?

Horse pucky. Despite what he claimed, he was never a sceptic. He did however pull off a real PR coup for his BEST dataset with his claimed conversion.

Here's his real stand over many years:"If Al Gore reaches more people and convinces the world that global warming is real, even if he does it through exaggeration and distortion - which he does, but he’s very effective at it - then let him fly any plane he wants." - Richard Muller, 2008

"There is a consensus that global warming is real. ...it’s going to get much, much worse." - Richard Muller, 2008

"Let me be clear. My own reading of the literature and study of paleoclimate suggests strongly that carbon dioxide from burning of fossil fuels will prove to be the greatest pollutant of human history. It is likely to have severe and detrimental effects on global climate." - Richard Muller, 2003
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Old 29-12-2015, 11:15   #636
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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While the big bang talks about a single point source for inflation, which I think is correct. I wondered if a single point source from a different dimension, which would have more then four dimensions (obviously), would inflate from separate rupture points, to create our four dimensional space. That in my simple mind, might account for some of the structure of the universe. Just a thought experiment, I had one day at anchor.
Fun stuff. String theory constructs a universe of 11 or 22 dimensions, depending which version you're partial to. Most are wrapped or compacted so as to make them unobservable in our four dimensional universe. How this leads to the observable universe is beyond me (and beyond string theory), but it is an interesting mathematical construct.

... this is far more interesting to discuss than all the political posturing and sophistry surrounding climate change.
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Old 29-12-2015, 11:25   #637
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

This post is a great example of how long people can keep repeating the same things over and over again! 43 pages...wow.
Seems to me that the only effect that this kind of discussion (if you can call it that) has is to cause people to fortify the defense of their own existing opinions.
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Old 29-12-2015, 11:45   #638
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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This post is a great example of how long people can keep repeating the same things over and over again! 43 pages...wow.
Seems to me that the only effect that this kind of discussion (if you can call it that) has is to cause people to fortify the defense of their own existing opinions.
No... It's more like a bunch of bored sailors wasting time on a sailing forum because the weather is too cold outside to do much of anything.

Global warming ended here today with temperatures plunging to well below freezing and Mother Nature dumping five inches of the heaviest snow I can remember on us. Yucky outside. I scraped up the first shovel full and couldn't even lift it off the ground. Then got out the Bobcat.
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Old 29-12-2015, 11:50   #639
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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According to the alarmists, it appears that the last years of the Little Ice Age are "normal".
If that be true then I'm all for the warming trend.
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Old 29-12-2015, 11:52   #640
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

OK, since we're having fun, here's some more red meat to chew on. A psychology researcher finds that there is a relationship between political affiliation and responses to questions around scientific facts. In the paper: Did the Arctic Ice Recover? Demographics of True and False Climate Facts, researchers find.



(From the abstract)
"The survey knowledge questions involve key, uncontroversial observations such as whether the area of late-summer Arctic sea ice has declined, increased, or declined and then recovered to what it was 30 years ago. Correct answers are predicted by education, and some wrong answers (e.g., more ice) have predictors that suggest lack of knowledge. Other wrong answers (e.g., ice recovered) are predicted by political and belief factors instead. Response patterns suggest causality in both directions: science information affecting climate beliefs, but also beliefs affecting the assimilation of science information.

From an interview in in ScienceDaily:

"Science education and outreach efforts commonly aim to communicate basic information that underlies scientific conclusions. An information-to-conclusions ordering follows the natural logic of science, but it fares less well with public opinion on politicized topics where bias works in the opposite direction. Even well-established observations may be discounted in favor of ideologically more palatable claims available to anyone with television or an Internet connection."
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Old 29-12-2015, 11:54   #641
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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No... It's more like a bunch of bored sailors wasting time on a sailing forum because the weather is too cold outside to do much of anything.
What he says
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Old 29-12-2015, 12:01   #642
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Fun stuff. String theory constructs a universe of 11 or 22 dimensions, depending which version you're partial to. Most are wrapped or compacted so as to make them unobservable in our four dimensional universe. How this leads to the observable universe is beyond me (and beyond string theory), but it is an interesting mathematical construct.

... this is far more interesting to discuss than all the political posturing and sophistry surrounding climate change.
You know it, the big bang, actually is the granddaddy of climate change.

I'm weak in string theory math, Not really sure string theory is valid, but I'm fair at visualization. While the big bang assumes a single point source, I postulate that a single point in 6 or 11 dimensional space might appear as simultaneous ruptures creating our four dimensional space.

While the big bang assumes a single point source, allowing for a single point source in 11 dimensional space, could create multiple rupture points in 4D space or rather inflate to create 4D space. Sort of like an object that is a 2D point, but also a line in a 3D, we can have a single point rupture in a higher (or is it lower) dimensional space that appears a something else in a different dimensional reference frame.

Multiple ruptures creating 4D space would easily explain some of the large structures of the universe.

I've got to study more on string theory and see if I can work out a bit o math.
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Old 29-12-2015, 12:01   #643
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Agreed! 5" of snow with more to come, freezing cold, and a bunch of office work. In other words, I really do appreciate you guys constantly interrupting me.
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Old 29-12-2015, 12:06   #644
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
OK, since we're having fun, here's some more red meat to chew on. A psychology researcher finds that there is a relationship between political affiliation and responses to questions around scientific facts. In the paper: Did the Arctic Ice Recover? Demographics of True and False Climate Facts, researchers find.



("
Then I come along, an autodidact liberal that has some questions on the validity of AGW. I don't fit the graph. But that could be just because blonde happens.
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Old 29-12-2015, 12:06   #645
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Fun stuff. String theory constructs a universe of 11 or 22 dimensions, depending which version you're partial to. Most are wrapped or compacted so as to make them unobservable in our four dimensional universe. How this leads to the observable universe is beyond me (and beyond string theory), but it is an interesting mathematical construct.

... this is far more interesting to discuss than all the political posturing and sophistry surrounding climate change.
Yeah sure, for you & the other astrophysicist/engineer types around here! I lost you above right after you wrote "Fun stuff."
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