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Old 24-12-2015, 12:57   #421
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
It all comes down to whether you use a capital "F" or small "f" when using the term "fascist." Nobody would refer to the Soviet regime as Fascist, but those suffering under its totalitarian system for 77 years would probably agree it was fascist.
The linear characterisation between Socialist and Fascist is very misleading. First they put Fascism on the side with individual liberty. This is the furthest from the truth. Nazis promoted work will set you free. Working for the state even in a slave labor camp will set you free. The Nazi Party had absolute power of the citizens. Citizens were part of the State of whom all had a responsibility to work for. It was all about the collective. The State was all supreme and the individual had to benefit the State.

Communists had the same view of the State being at the center. The difference came down to Communism being a dictatorship of the worker and Fascism being a dictatorship of an elite. All though espoused that everything was for the common welfare as expressed in the formation of the State.

Problem with the Communists is that while it started out as a rule of the masses (workers) for the benefit of the collective it devolved into a rule by a new elite. The so called dictatorship of the many became a dictatorship of the few new elite.

That is why at the end of the day the Communist State quickly becomes indistinguishable from a Fascist State.

This is easily seen in the old USSR as well as Cuba etc. Both started out as State being ruled by the collective but ending up with the collective being ruled by a repressive elite.

Fascists and Communists have never been far apart from one another. History shows how Hitler and Stalin had a cooperation until Hitler double crossed Stalin.

If you ask a follower of Leon Trotsky they will tell you that the Russian revolution was overthrown by a counter revolution by Fascists who purged the original polit bureau and installed a ruthless new elite fascist dictatorship.

So simplistic pic graphs such as was presented are very misleading and the author was attempting to align this who believe in individual freedom with Fascism. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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Old 24-12-2015, 13:06   #422
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I just heard a "Green Tips" commercial on the radio encouraging everyone to buy real Christmas trees because they're now considered a renewable resource and therefore.... more green that artificial trees made from "BIG OiL."

Sounds to me like the greenies need to make up their minds and get their message straight.
Damn ... I thought all us greenies got the memo from Grand Lefty Poohba. I keep telling the comrades that if we're going to orchestrate a global conspiracy of corrupting 99% of the scientists and governments, then everyone's got to read their emails promptly

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Alberta - It is snowing right now.

The increased amplitude in the jet stream that gave the eastern North America a cold winter last year, gave us record warmth. This year the reverse is occurring.
It's a white x-mas here in Calgary. Actually, it's been colder than normal for months now for much of western North America. I know b/c I've been motorcycling and camping since mid-October, starting in BC and working my way south and then east to Arizona. It has been running 5 to 10 degrees C colder than normal pretty much the whole time, and stormier than normal.

Combined with the Canadian dollar going into the crapper vs the US buck, it's been the perfect time to do this trip .
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Old 24-12-2015, 15:03   #423
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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The extreme left and right are both totalitarian. The ultimate goal of Marxism is the "withering away of the state." Fascists glorified the state.
Those withered away states killed a heck of a lot of civilians in the meantime.

Do a little search for

marxist dictators civilian death toll

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Old 24-12-2015, 16:17   #424
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Yes, Merry Christ, or Saturnalia or Jól or Consumerist Orgy day all
Kinda Scroogy to say on X-Mas eve, but just got back from the county landfill and they said this coming weekend will be their busiest of the year. I guess that follows with the day after Thanksgiving being the busiest shopping day of the year.
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Old 24-12-2015, 16:24   #425
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Interesting article! Expecially the last part about all the "adjusted" data. I don't know who the author is, but with the mainstream scientific community so heavily invested in their "consensus," it will likely take outside, independent experts to illuminate issues such as these. Hopefully they won't get vilified for it.
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Old 24-12-2015, 16:34   #426
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Interesting article! Expecially the last part about all the "adjusted" data. I don't know who the author is, but with the mainstream scientific community so heavily invested in their "consensus," it will likely take outside, independent experts to illuminate issues such as these. Hopefully they won't get vilified for it.

Because many folks have no clue about temperature adjustments. Judith Curry and Steve Mosher, both well-known skeptics, have commented on this. Curry asked Zeke Hausfather to post some commentary on her blog.

Judith Curry, a skeptic and one of Inhofe's favorites, has published three discussions of temperature adjustments.

Quote:
"There has been much discussion of temperature adjustment of late in both climate blogs and in the media, but not much background on what specific adjustments are being made, why they are being made, and what effects they have. Adjustments have a big effect on temperature trends in the U.S., and a modest effect on global land trends. The large contribution of adjustments to century-scale U.S. temperature trends lends itself to an unfortunate narrative that “government bureaucrats are cooking the books”."


Figure 1. Global (left) and CONUS (right) homogenized and raw data from NCDC and Berkeley Earth. Series are aligned relative to 1990-2013 means. NCDC data is from GHCN v3.2 and USHCN v2.5 respectively.

Understanding adjustments to temperature data | Climate Etc.

Berkeley Earth: raw versus adjusted temperature data | Climate Etc.

Understanding Time of Observation Bias | Climate Etc.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To which I would add a comment from Steve Mosher, the skeptic who published the Climategate letters.

Christopher Booker win’s the irony of the year award with his piece on adjustments to the temperature record. That’s quite a feat considering it’s only February. His complaint overlooks the clear historical fact that skeptics, above all others, have made the loudest case for the need to adjust the temperature series. <b>Over the years, it’s been skeptics, who have made a vocal case for adjustments . </b> More disturbing is the claim that these adjustments are somehow criminal. We dealt with these type of claims before and completely debunked them.

https://andthentheresphysics.wordpre...d-adjustments/
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Old 24-12-2015, 16:54   #427
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

(I thought there was some kind of Christmas truce going on, but... guess not)

I stopped reading after this:

Quote:
1. Temperature records from around the world do not support the assumption that today’s temperatures are unusual.
The all-time high temperature record for the world was set in 1913, while the all-time cold temperature record was set in 1983. By continent, all but one set their all-time high temperature record more recently than their all-time cold temperature records. In the United States, which has more weather stations than any other location in the world, more cold temperature records by state were set more recently than hot temperature records. When the temperature records for each state were considered for each month of the year, a total of 600 data points (50 states x 12 months), again cold temperature records were set in far greater numbers more recently and hot temperature records were set longer ago. This is directly contradictory to what would be expected if global warming were real.
so much bullshit. One of the central predictions is that AGW will make the weather more unstable as normal atmospheric patterns are altered. Higher highs, lower lows. Extreme data points don't signify anything. What counts is the net change - is our thin livible slice of planet (air, land, water) heating up overall or not?

All of these points in the article have this same flavour: take a tiny fact out of context, fluff it up, distort, and than shout ta-DAAAA! as if you've just proved Euler's formula from first principles.

However, I'm sure these classic points, freshened up and served with a sprig of holly, will no doubt make for lively discussion at denier tables everywhere this Yuletide.
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Old 24-12-2015, 16:57   #428
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Nice try, but FAIL...

NAZI is National SOCIALIST

https://www.quora.com/What-does-Nazi-mean-in-German

The last time I looked, Socialist is left wing.
an answer, courtesy of Google in 15 seconds (including typing)

Were the Nazis socialist?


You're so wrong it hurts. Why don't you read books or maybe look something up once in a while?
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Old 24-12-2015, 17:00   #429
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Only read the last article from your post above Jack (before L-E rudely interrupted ;-)), but that was enough to give me a sense of how complex this area of "raw data" & "adjustments" is, and that it has been debated for a long time. The Van Biezen article (posted by Garbone) makes an issue over the alleged scrubbing of the "original data," but then the article you posted explains why it doesn't matter.

Ah well, tough stuff for the non-expert layman to grasp, but a rigorous debate amongst the scientists can't hurt.
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Old 24-12-2015, 17:08   #430
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I stopped reading after this:
You really never want to stop reading L-E, or questioning, examining, challenging your own assumptions, etc. Otherwise your outlook may become pretty fixed, even though life keeps changing. Ooops, sorry . . . .
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Old 24-12-2015, 17:18   #431
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Meanwhile, and as intended, the tax encouraged people to start using their own reusable grocery bags, but there have been a number of outbreaks of unexpected and serious illness, reportedly from bacteria building up in the reusable bags.
Haven't heard that. Link? In our market the uptake of reusable bags has been pretty good, but I haven't heard of illness where the cause was the bags. The supermarkets provide very light plastic bags for produce, and they will often put meat into a similar bag.

These light bags go into recycling (see below)

Quote:
Speaking of recycling, there's a big program for that in both the city and the county landfills, but due to the distant location of the actual recycling facilities, it requires more fossil fuel consumption & emissions to get the stuff there -- i.e. negative impact on the environment -- than would have been the case if the recyclables were left in the landfill. Oooops. That pesky law of unintended consequences again.

Doesn't stop everyone from rigorously separating out their recyclables, and busily putting everything in the correct bin. Feels good that they're "making a difference" I'm sure. I do the same, but think I at least have a better understanding of what difference it's really making.
In Toronto, households separate their waste into organics (any food scraps, pet litter, etc), recyclables (any paper, bottles, cans, just about all plastics, styrofoam, waxed cartons, tetrapaks, etc), and garbage (what's left). It's made a huge reduction in the sheer amount of waste that ends up going to dumps.

It's not only virtuous (choir sings AHHHH ), it's actually saving money and has increased the amount of easily recoverable plastics. Plastics are great, but evil if you're not keeping them out of the environment. Pacific gyre, anyone?

Sounds like the recycling program you described needs some tuning.
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Old 24-12-2015, 17:19   #432
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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You really never want to stop reading L-E, or questioning, examining, challenging your own assumptions, etc. Otherwise your outlook may become pretty fixed, even though life keeps changing. Ooops, sorry . . . .
Actually, I did read, but didn't have the energy to critique them all.
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Old 24-12-2015, 18:43   #433
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
so much bullshit. One of the central predictions is that AGW will make the weather more unstable as normal atmospheric patterns are altered. Higher highs, lower lows. Extreme data points don't signify anything. What counts is the net change - is our thin livible slice of planet (air, land, water) heating up overall or not?
Care to explain how AGW makes weather more unstable and how these atmospheric patterns will alter?

One of the central predictions of AGW is that the poles will warm more than the equator.

Weather is not caused by "temperature", it the the result of temperature/pressure differentials - primarily between polar and equatorial regions. With lower temperature differentials, you should see lower highs and higher lows, not the opposite.
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Old 24-12-2015, 18:51   #434
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Haven't heard that. Link? In our market the uptake of reusable bags has been pretty good, but I haven't heard of illness where the cause was the bags. The supermarkets provide very light plastic bags for produce, and they will often put meat into a similar bag.

These light bags go into recycling (see below)

You could try these links for a start.

Virus Outbreak Traced to Reusable Grocery Bag

Plastic Bag Ban Responsible For Spike In E. Coli Infections, Study Says

The California Dept of Public Health even so far as to publish an advisory warning of the dangers and advising on care of reusable bags. How many people do you think follow these guidelines strictly:
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/pubsforms/Do...usableBags.pdf
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Old 24-12-2015, 18:56   #435
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I stopped reading after this:
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Actually, I did read, but didn't have the energy to critique them all.
Which of these two statements is false?
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