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Old 23-12-2015, 15:33   #376
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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What do you feel is a equitable answer to the thousands of coal miners in Kentucky and Virginia who are now out of work with no transferable skills to another industry? I took a drive through 'coal country' this fall and the abject poverty and closure of many fine small businesses in towns that have depended upon the coal industry employment for generations Has to be seen to be believed!

My son who lives in BC rides a bike to work because the fuel for his car is too expensive. This is great until somebody hits him going to or from work and I or the BC government will have to support him and his family for many decades to come.
Part of a well-constructed plan to phase out the reliance on fossil fuels would include some contingency for workers displaced by the loss of related jobs. In this anti-AGW, greenies is soshulist atmosphere, not much chance of movement towards a well-constructed plan.

Fossil fuel jobs aren't a social program or charity as far as I know; regions that for whatever reason have gone all-in on fossil fuels and have not diversified enough when the money was rolling in (our Alberta is sort of in that boat) are partially to blame for tying their finances themselves so tightly to one commodity.

Biking in North America is on the rise. When big cities put in the right support (bike lanes, etc), you'll find many people biking by choice. In North America the missing ingredients are still driver awareness and courtesy. That will come. If your son feels unsafe on bike or transit, then there's work to be done.
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Old 23-12-2015, 15:41   #377
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
well...

[LIST][*]His ability as an executive - I guess... except it was mentioned that if he'd simply put the wealth he inherited into conventional hands-off investments, he'd be richer than he currently is. Make of that what you will

C'mon, admit it, you only wish it was Gates and not Trump running in the primary. ;-)
Please Lake-Effect. I'm not feeling well as it is I don't need to read verbal horse manure that makes me want to throw up.

Who is feeding you this garbage about Donald Trump? Was it your local socialist /Democrat Party meeting?

Truth Check. Trump inherited $2 million. No money manager on Wall Street would have turned that into $10 Billion. So very dishonest to try to discredit a man and take from him his achievements. You can't give credit where credit is due can you. You can only steal a man's reputation as part of the mental illness that plaques the left.
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Old 23-12-2015, 15:46   #378
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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The carbon tax will also serve as an incentive for alternative energy sources.

Still a huge gap in costs, getting wider with the collapse of oil prices, and only partially narrowed with govt. subsidies. In other words, additional taxation that mostly affects the middle class. Bill Gates & the other 1%'ers are hardly inconvenienced but get to make themselves feel good.

And it more than just petroleum consumption. The "big baddy" is coal generated electricity. Coal has the highest number of deaths per terawatt of energy produced, as well as being the major course of CO2 emissions.
It seems the decline of the coal industry in the so-called developed world has more to do with technology's development of huge reserves of cleaner natural gas and additional oil reserves, much of it thanks to fracking. But of course the political demonization of an entire industry hasn't helped. Meanwhile, the Wash. Post op-ed posted above says that coal usage & production in the developing world continues to rapidly increase, and it is no secret that China is opening new coal plants at record levels. So while we can feel smug about our own reductions in harmful coal emissions, the net effect on the planet is ??? Like encouraging the Venezuelans to do more offshore drilling while we discourage it at home, it smells of another "not in my backyard" scenario. This is despite our being the largest per capita consumers, and possessing the best environmental technologies.
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Old 23-12-2015, 15:50   #379
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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It seems the decline of the coal industry in the so-called developed world has more to do with technology's development of huge reserves of cleaner natural gas and additional oil reserves, much of it thanks to fracking. But of course the political demonization of an entire industry hasn't helped. Meanwhile, the Wash. Post op-ed posted above says that coal usage & production in the developing world continues to rapidly increase, and it is no secret that China is opening new coal plants at record levels. So while we can feel smug about our own reductions in harmful coal emissions, the net effect on the planet is ??? Like encouraging the Venezuelans to do more offshore drilling while we discourage it at home, it smells of another "not in my backyard" scenario. This is despite our being the largest per capita consumers, and possessing the best environmental technologies.
China is bringing online 1 new coal plant a week. They got a free pass at Paris. Makes you question the motivations involved.
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Old 23-12-2015, 15:52   #380
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Sorry, I just couldn't pass up the irony on this one.

Quote:
The town of Asbestos hitched its fortunes to a maverick product, and a younger generation is already seeking its prospects elsewhere. On the sidewalk outside an adult-education school, young students taking a smoking break say they’re not sticking around Asbestos. “There are no more jobs here because they say asbestos is toxic. For me, it’s pretty much over,” says 18-year-old Alex Daudelin, who plans to look for work in the Northwest Territories or northern Quebec.
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Old 23-12-2015, 15:53   #381
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Please Lake-Effect. I'm not feeling well as it is I don't need to read verbal horse manure that makes me want to throw up.

Who is feeding you this garbage about Donald Trump? Was it your local socialist /Democrat Party meeting?

Truth Check. Trump inherited $2 million. No money manager on Wall Street would have turned that into $10 Billion. So very dishonest to try to discredit a man and take from him his achievements. You can't give credit where credit is due can you. You can only steal a man's reputation as part of the mental illness that plaques the left.
You gotta source?

Mine is here. Or here.

Even in the most fawning of Trump biographies, nowhere is the inheritance pegged as low as $2M. Try at least 20x to 40x that. More reliable sources say it was in the range of $200 million.

Trump has regularly misreported his net worth. But even he doesn't claim $10B.. Edit - OMG, he does. But it's unverified. Bloomberg sez $2.9 B.

Ya gotta love a guy who says his name alone is worth $3.3 B (also in the Bloomberg link). I've decided my name is worth ... a 34ft Hanse, new or slightly used. PM me.

Geez I hope your post was just the meds talking. Get well soon.
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Old 23-12-2015, 16:12   #382
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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But are you (and Jack) saying that while the tax is passed down to the consumer who pays the tax at the pump, the actual amount of the tax is assessed at the wellhead (if you will), to the producer (or refiner, perhaps)? And this assessment is variable, depending on the amount of emissions produced in making the product?
I'm not saying that exactly; I was responding to the point that carbon taxes paid by corporations will be passed along to consumers. My counterpoint is: good, that's how it should be.

I'm not in the position to opine on how such a tax should be implemented. First, I'm not knowledgeable enough to come to such an opinion. And although that's not usually a good reason to keep quiet on an internet forum, I'll add that it's been a long work day, I'm tired and hungry, and want to get started on my holiday celebrations, so I'm not in the mood to think about it. Happy Sun Ascension and Merry Christmas!
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Old 23-12-2015, 16:24   #383
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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China is bringing online 1 new coal plant a week. They got a free pass at Paris. Makes you question the motivations involved.
Everyone got a free pass at Paris. Many of the commitments were just a rehash of the Kyoto ones, and nothing is binding.
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Old 23-12-2015, 16:41   #384
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

The caveat with a lot of taxes that are applied for specific purposes is that there is a high probability that they will never be redacted and that they eventually get integrated into general revenues.

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Old 23-12-2015, 16:43   #385
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I'm not saying that exactly; I was responding to the point that carbon taxes paid by corporations will be passed along to consumers. My counterpoint is: good, that's how it should be.

I'm not in the position to opine on how such a tax should be implemented. First, I'm not knowledgeable enough to come to such an opinion. And although that's not usually a good reason to keep quiet on an internet forum, I'll add that it's been a long work day, I'm tired and hungry, and want to get started on my holiday celebrations, so I'm not in the mood to think about it. Happy Sun Ascension and Merry Christmas!
No biggie, just curious and thought someone might know. I'll read up on it. Enjoy your celebrations.
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Old 23-12-2015, 16:46   #386
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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You gotta source?

Mine is here. Or here.

Even in the most fawning of Trump biographies, nowhere is the inheritance pegged as low as $2M. Try at least 20x to 40x that. More reliable sources say it was in the range of $200 million.

Trump has regularly misreported his net worth. But even he doesn't claim $10B.. Edit - OMG, he does. But it's unverified. Bloomberg sez $2.9 B.

Ya gotta love a guy who says his name alone is worth $3.3 B (also in the Bloomberg link). I've decided my name is worth ... a 34ft Hanse, new or slightly used. PM me.

Geez I hope your post was just the meds talking. Get well soon.
Yo L-E! Trump told us he was "really, REALLY rich." Ain't that enough??
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Old 23-12-2015, 16:55   #387
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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The caveat with a lot of taxes that are applied for specific purposes is that there is a high probability that they will never be redacted and that they eventually get integrated into general revenues.
In this case it's just til we run out.
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Old 23-12-2015, 17:17   #388
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Thanks, Jackdale... I recall the demise of Asbestos in Quebec... it is a good analogy to the US coal miner. An 18 year old can be retrained and has an incentive to go after it but a 45-55 year old coal miner is pretty much screwed IMO. Usually limited education and tied to the area through family and friends, really a tough situation!
I have admired your writings for several years, Jack and great to see another Canuck make his living on the water. I'm long retired but still try and keep up with maritime affairs. Phil
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Old 23-12-2015, 18:52   #389
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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...What do you feel is a equitable answer to the thousands of coal miners in Kentucky and Virginia who are now out of work with no transferable skills to another industry? I took a drive through 'coal country' this fall and the abject poverty and closure of many fine small businesses in towns that have depended upon the coal industry employment for generations Has to be seen to be believed!... Phil
Shift from fossil fuels risks popping 'carbon bubble': World Bank | Yahoo News
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The transition from fossil fuels must be carefully managed to avoid an economically disastrous bursting of the "carbon bubble," the World Bank's top climate official said on Saturday.

Decades of reliance on oil, gas and coal have made them central to the global economy, and polluting industries risk a potentially catastrophic crash as the world shifts to alternative energies, said Rachel Kyte, the Bank's special envoy for climate change.

"If we accept that we need to have less carbon in our growth, then we might have a financial risk associated with the prominence in our economy of companies who are heavily invested in carbon. That's the whole question of the carbon bubble," Kyte told AFP on the sidelines of the World Bank's annual meeting in Lima, Peru...

She also warned that the real cost of curbing climate change and adapting to its impacts will be far more than the target of $100 billion a year that wealthy countries have vowed to come up with by 2020...

That will mean radical changes -- and massive investments -- for our transportation, industries and cities, she said.

"That's not a $100 billion problem, that's a trillion dollar problem," she said.
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Old 23-12-2015, 21:12   #390
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

I wonder if any of that "loss of profit" concern was lavished on manufacturers of CRT's for TV sets and monitors, or LP turntable or CFL light bulbs, or LP or CD, or VCR's, and especially for those people who serviced such products......, NAH !
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