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Old 24-04-2016, 17:08   #3631
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Yes but are you now...or have you ever been a member of the communist party?

Isn't it fun to see that nothing ever really changes...just different lyrics to the same tune....
Inhofe and Smith are the new McCarthys.
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:10   #3632
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

[QUOTE=Lake-Effect;2105418]Blaming the UN for Middle East wars is MILES off the truth./QUOTE]


Without UN resolutions there could be no invasion of Iraq. It's an historical fact. For sure there were many others with even more blame. But the inept UN could have prevented it. That is its primary reason for existence in the first place.

If the world had access to safe, cheap energy that used an unlimited fuel supply there would be no reason to fight wars in the Middle East. Or anywhere else for that matter. Only fusion makes that offer to mankind. I cannot understand why liberals/greens/progressives turn their nose up when they hear it. They say things like "decades to develop" or "a trillion $ to perfect". Then argue for alternatives that cannot replace even a significant fraction of the hydrocarbon energy we use today for an infinite amount of $. It makes no sense regardless of your political stripes.
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:12   #3633
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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It does not include that whole data set which shows long term warming. That meets the classic definition of cherry pick.
And neither did Rb Alley either. But I digress. You specifically stated it was "fake" more than once and, to add a cherry on top, posted links in an attempt to discredit those skeptics to justify your argument. Unusually for one so hung up on peer review as yourself, one link included an anonymous blog written by some nutter that obviously had an axe to grind with the particular skeptic they were ineffectually attempting to discredit.

And then we could also discuss the recent discussion on Otto's alleged "out of context" statements that were thrashed out a week or two ago...

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Old 24-04-2016, 17:17   #3634
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I hate to tell you this, but you and James Hansen agree on nuclear energy.

I have no idea why you think you know what will upset me but agreeing with anyone on nuclear energy policy certainly does not. Leave the personal gybes out of this if you don't mind.
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:17   #3635
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Only an idiot uncritically copies the quote mined, out of context, material from c3headlines.
Since I didn't get those quotes from C3 but from Forbes and elsewhere, I'm not sure what your point is. Did they not say these things?

As a warmist, I understand that reality is tenuous terrain for you and data can be very disconcerting, but if you expect to be dismissed as a loon you really should reconsider calling people idiots who merely quote what other warmists have said, or point out inconvenient data that troubles your meme.
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:22   #3636
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Yes you did.

Sept 2010...

Nov 2012...

Asia is a natural market for Chinese electricity, and the west is asleep at the switch when it comes to providing leadership and lower-polluting alternatives to developing countries. I don't believe that Europe will become a significant consumer of Chinese electricity.

heh. Did you actually read the article? Here are some quotes:
The country’s carbon emissions may be declining more than a decade earlier than anticipated, thanks in part to reductions in coal power.

...

“In short, Chinese provinces are promoting construction of unneeded coal plants for precisely the same reason they are promoting every other kind of construction as well,” said Lauri Myllyvirta, Senior Global Campaigner at Greenpeace, “to boost economic activity in the short term, often with little regard for longer-term profitability or debt problems. There is generally no oversight or due diligence for obtaining finance for projects like this.”


China is ramping up capacity from wind and solar, which are rapidly displacing coal. Myllyvirta says existing coal plants are now operating at below 50 percent of capacity, with consequences for the mining sector. Facing an oversupply of cheap coal, Beijing aims to close 1,000 mines this year. As the national government draws down coal production, the response for coal-producing provinces has been to build more power plants.


...


Beijing is trying to keep the problem in check. China’s National Energy Administration has ordered 13 provincial governments to stop approving new coal-fired power plants and ordered 15 provinces to halt construction of coal-fired power plants that have already been approved.


...


For Mylyvirta, it’s not all bad news. “A key reason why China is developing overcapacity in coal mining and coal power is the rapid and successful deployment of clean energy, which is making new coal plants redundant,” he explained. Provincial governments are vying to keep to jobs threatened by growth wind and solar.

The shift to renewable power promises new jobs, breathable air and a vibrant clean energy sector, but the move is not without its challenges. China’s transition to a clean energy economy could prove instructive to other nations aiming to move away from fossil fuels.


So... great link. Thanks!

Haven't we talked about this "alarmist" thing already?

There's other reasons besides "environmentalists" for why nuclear power hasn't received more attention. Absurdly cheap fossil fuel won't make that better any time soon.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/wo...licy.html?_r=0. November, 2015

China is building more coal plants. This is a fact. China is building Ultra High Voltage distribution lines. This is a fact. Adherence to the Paris Accords will accomplish zero in mitigating global warming. This is what the IPCC models conclude. Implementing the Paris Accords will cost trillions. That is a fact. Etc., etc., etc.

You can believe whatever you like. Warmism passed over to become a faith based belief system some time ago, so debating where DC 3s come from with cargo cultists is a waste of time.
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:30   #3637
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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The facts that have been presented on the " wealth distribution" meme has been shown on paper to be fact.
Don't trouble the man with reality, for heaven's sake!
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:36   #3638
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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"No matter if the science of global warming is all phony... climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world." - Christine Stewart, Canadian Minister of the Environment
My wee antennae always jump and twitch when Canada is mentioned. So I went looking for verification.

I found about a bazillion denier/"skeptic" sites carrying it verbatim, natch. Trying to find a real cite for this quote (dating to 1998) was much harder.

The closest I got to a cite was to some evidence of controversy which linked to here, which is allegedly an archive of the source editorial from the Calgary Herald, again unverified.

The quote attributed to Stewart here is:

"No matter if the science is all phoney, there are collateral environmental benefits." [spelling errors theirs]

There's also an indirect link to an editorial the Financial Post which repeats the above, then in another paragraph quotes Stewart as saying, in the same meeting with the Herald:

'Climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world.'

(and again I can't verify online what she actually said to the Herald, short of writing or calling them I guess)

Now hey, I'm not that comfortable that she may have made these two statements. I suspect that if pressed at the time, she would have to confirm that these are not official positions of the Canadian government of the time. But we don't have a full transcript of this alleged meeting with the editorial board of the Herald, so we have not much context, either.

Anyway - these two, as-is, are pretty embarrassing to the pro-AGW position. But no, let's splice'em together with an ellipsis:

"No matter if the science of global warming is all phony... climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world."

... and this 18-year old, poorly-sourced Franken-quote now lives forever, unchallenged, as gospel truth in the liturgy of the devout denier.

It took me less than half an hour to get to this point.

So you want me to take the data and conclusions from all these same anti-AGW sites as being equivalent or superior to that from the IPCC, or NOAA, or NASA? Riiight.
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:41   #3639
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Remember... anything that proves a MMGW advocate wrong is racist.
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:41   #3640
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Since I didn't get those quotes from C3 but from Forbes and elsewhere, I'm not sure what your point is. Did they not say these things?
Please provide us with your sources of the quotes.

Sure looks a lot like

C3: Global Warming Quotes & Climate Change Quotes: Human-Caused Global Warming Advocates/Supporters
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:42   #3641
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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And neither did Rb Alley either. But I digress. You specifically stated it was "fake" more than once and, to add a cherry on top, posted links in an attempt to discredit those skeptics to justify your argument. Unusually for one so hung up on peer review as yourself, one link included an anonymous blog written by some nutter that obviously had an axe to grind with the particular skeptic they were ineffectually attempting to discredit.

And then we could also discuss the recent discussion on Otto's alleged "out of context" statements that were thrashed out a week or two ago...

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Alley used the whole data set. It is his.
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:50   #3642
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/wo...licy.html?_r=0. November, 2015

China is building more coal plants. This is a fact. China is building Ultra High Voltage distribution lines. This is a fact.
China is using coal-plant construction as a make-work scheme, to keep idle hands busy. This is a fact. China is not running their coal-plants at full capacity. This is a fact. China is closing coal mines and their coal consumption is flattening. These are facts.

Quote:
Adherence to the Paris Accords will accomplish zero in mitigating global warming. This is what the IPCC models conclude. Implementing the Paris Accords will cost trillions. That is a fact. Etc., etc., etc.
Relax, these are non-binding, and like Kyoto, most of them will not see the light of day.
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Old 24-04-2016, 17:50   #3643
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Inhofe and Smith are the new McCarthys.
And progressivism is the new authoritarianism, which is a shame, and will eventually discredit it:

The ‘settled’ consensus du jour

Almost as if Mr. Will is reading our thread. Let's cite a few of the more recent and prominent examples, coming to you right here on CF.

1. Reaching new but predictable heights of . . . McCarthy-like behavior(??), the attempt to silence our own favorite watermaker guy and full-time liveaboard sailor (on a mooring no less) by threatening to publish negative and of course bogus business reviews on the internet. A relatively new, fashionable way to express one's displeasure with differing opinions, regardless of whether they have anything to do with the person's business, and whether or not the reviews are truthful.

2. Admonishments to other posters to "challenge the message, not the messenger," preceded and followed - in the same post no less - with attacks on . . . yup . . . the messenger and not the message.

3. Overtly justifying the deliberate use of bogus "alarmism" as a means to a higher end, namely to save those ignorant skeptics from ourselves. But hey, isn't this always the justification for authoritarianism, whether from the right or the left?

4. And last (for now) but certainly not least, the incessant use of copy & paste "science," usually without explanation or analysis, that ignores, distorts, or marginalizes often equally valid but contrary "science." This is all in an effort, certainly not confined to CF, to insure a uniform "message" that the science is "settled" above all else, most certainly above the truth.

All of which begs the question: If the science is in fact so "settled," they why all the extreme measures to counter any dissent?
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Old 24-04-2016, 18:05   #3644
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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And progressivism is the new authoritarianism.

All of which begs the question: If the science is in fact so "settled," they why all the extreme measures to counter any dissent?
Bingo...
For totalitarianism to survive a 97% consensus isn't enough, because that 3% is dangerous to maintaining the lie. So there is absolutely no room for dissent. Remember how dissent was once called patriotism? Now it is attacked, you can lose your job, your career, have your kids taken away by CPS and be charged with a hate crime for daring to say the emperor has no clothes.
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Old 24-04-2016, 18:06   #3645
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Please provide us with your sources of the quotes.

Sure looks a lot like

C3: Global Warming Quotes & Climate Change Quotes: Human-Caused Global Warming Advocates/Supporters
Regardless of the source of the quotes, isn't the relevant and important point whether the quotes are correctly attributed to proponents of the AGW position? Or is this another violation of your own rule not to attack the messenger but challenge the message? You do quote from skeptical science, albeit "rarely."
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