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Old 22-12-2015, 22:33   #346
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Jack -- interesting post on BC's carbon tax that I will read further. Tks.
This might interest you.

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since 2007 Exxon Mobil, the world's biggest publicly listed oil company, is proposing a carbon tax, and has already put a shadow price on each tonne of CO2 it emits. And in the lead-up to the climate-change summit that starts in Paris at the end of this month, six European oil majors have advocated carbon-pricing systems.
The CEO of Suncor, an oil sands developer, supports a carbon tax.

The American Enterprise Institute favours a carbon tax.
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Old 22-12-2015, 22:41   #347
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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This might interest you.



The CEO of Suncor, an oil sands developer, supports a carbon tax.

The American Enterprise Institute favours a carbon tax.
Transmitterdan addressed the motivations behind energy cos. favoring a carbon tax in a post a few pages back. Fast-moving thread.
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Old 22-12-2015, 22:48   #348
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Transmitterdan addressed the motivations behind energy cos. favoring a carbon tax in a post a few pages back. Fast-moving thread.
Thanks. Read it. Expect to see carbon pricing in Canada. Two provinces have gone cap-and-trade to which I am opposed. Alberta is increasing carbon pricing, but it is not as revenue neutral as BC's.

Our political system seems to be more functional than yours.
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Old 22-12-2015, 23:21   #349
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Thanks. Read it. Expect to see carbon pricing in Canada. Two provinces have gone cap-and-trade to which I am opposed. Alberta is increasing carbon pricing, but it is not as revenue neutral as BC's.

Our political system seems to be more functional than yours.
I don't even have to know much about your political system to safely say that the comment above has got to be the biggest understatement I've heard in quite awhile!
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Old 23-12-2015, 00:32   #350
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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How to make a million in the marine industry? Start with two million.

Listen I'm tired and it seems I'm a bit more caustic than I wanna be. My apologies.

Seriously, please read the Gates article and tell me why a guy like that thinks there's a problem and wants to act. Don't say tax writeoff; there's a million easier ways and funny little tax-free jurisdictions for that. He could pay 95% tax and not change his lifestyle. Why does he see this as important?
And what makes Bill Gates' opinion any more worthwhile than yours or mine? Because he's got more money? How much does he know about atmospheric physics? Has he studied the subject as much as I have?

Classic fallacy of an appeal to authority where the "authority" has no more knowledge than anyone else.
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Old 23-12-2015, 00:42   #351
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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That will be a lesson in conspiracy ideation.
Someone's been reading Lewandowsky's execrable papers.
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Old 23-12-2015, 00:52   #352
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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You might think I'm rich because I own an old 47' Bristol, but it's no coincidence that I was quite a bit wealthier before I ever owned it!
Amen brother!



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Old 23-12-2015, 01:05   #353
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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And what makes Bill Gates' opinion any more worthwhile than yours or mine? Because he's got more money? How much does he know about atmospheric physics? Has he studied the subject as much as I have?

Classic fallacy of an appeal to authority where the "authority" has no more knowledge than anyone else.
Not to mention the millionaires & billionaires funding the nonprofits, think tanks, advocacy groups, PR firms, "journalists," and politicians. Kinda like DonorsTrust but with "science." But that's OK because they're in the same club, even though they generally have lifestyles that produce more fossil fuel emissions in a week than "rich guys" with big boats and Dodge trucks emit in a year.

Here's an interesting take on why the skepticism goes way beyond refusing to simply believe the "science." It's about ideology transforming science, actually, and why authoritarian rule in a democracy doesn't work when only half or less of the citizenry are represented:

Paris Climate-Change Conference and Progressive Hypocrisy | National Review Online
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Old 23-12-2015, 01:08   #354
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Amen brother!



All the way from Mallorca! Nice having you here, Weav!
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Old 23-12-2015, 01:16   #355
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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All the way from Mallorca! Nice having you here, Weav!
Thank you mi amigo! Whatever that means..........

An interesting topic his one. I guess I fall in into the camp that to find the answer, one should follow the money.

There is huge money in climate change.

The Irish in me also gives me another dictum to follow.

First: believe nothing.

Then believe nothing at all.

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Old 23-12-2015, 01:24   #356
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Thank you mi amigo! Whatever that means..........

An interesting topic his one. I guess I fall in into the camp that to find the answer, one should follow the money.

There is huge money in climate change.

The Irish in me also gives me another dictum to follow.

First: believe nothing.

Then believe nothing at all.

I only believe in Rocky, my spoiled rotten 'lil bulldog. (no offense intended toward your cat(s), of course)
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Old 23-12-2015, 01:47   #357
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I only believe in Rocky, my spoiled rotten 'lil bulldog. (no offense intended toward your cat(s), of course)
My cats believe in themselves. I am here only to serve.
No offence taken.

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Old 23-12-2015, 02:25   #358
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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My cats believe in themselves. I am here only to serve.
No offence taken.

I understand what you mean, as I am merely Rocky's human.
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Old 23-12-2015, 04:38   #359
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Lysenkoism comes to mind
The lesson here?
We need to remember that just because a dictator issues a decree or legislators pass a law, they have not changed reality.
Ignoring science in favour of a preferred outlook on the world can have devastating consequences.
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Old 23-12-2015, 04:40   #360
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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And what makes Bill Gates' opinion any more worthwhile than yours or mine? Because he's got more money? How much does he know about atmospheric physics? Has he studied the subject as much as I have?

Classic fallacy of an appeal to authority where the "authority" has no more knowledge than anyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Not to mention the millionaires & billionaires funding the nonprofits, think tanks, advocacy groups, PR firms, "journalists," and politicians. Kinda like DonorsTrust but with "science." But that's OK because they're in the same club, even though they generally have lifestyles that produce more fossil fuel emissions in a week than "rich guys" with big boats and Dodge trucks emit in a year.

Here's an interesting take on why the skepticism goes way beyond refusing to simply believe the "science." It's about ideology transforming science, actually, and why authoritarian rule in a democracy doesn't work when only half or less of the citizenry are represented:

Paris Climate-Change Conference and Progressive Hypocrisy | National Review Online


And people claim I'm blinded by dogma...

How about:
  • He is not dumb or intellectually lazy
  • His ability as an executive - to gather the right information, discern what's important and what's not, and to reach a decision - is above reproach.
  • He has the ability to spend much more time than you or I in studying something, and probably has much better access to sources and people
  • His cred as a capitalist, entrepreneur and innovator is untouchable.
  • He's demonstrably conservative (except for this move, which is apparently exploding your head)


Speaking of classics, let's run through the classic denier dogma and other choice nodules above
  • knee-jerk dismissal of an important data point. It's not classic 'appeal to authority' - he's no authority; he's a person of exceptional ability, reputation and resources. From your side of the political spectrum. Who has been able to make the sort of in-depth study that you or I can only dream of.
  • argle bargle rich guy argle bargle rich guys club
  • the Gore != Ghandhi argument - he's not living in a tent lit only by earwax candles, so he's a hypocrite
  • climate science is corrupt/incompetent
Just saying 'appeal to authority' doesn't cancel the argument, you have to prove that the authority is in fact not credible. Like how the anti-AGW side has yet to prove that climate scientists and the work they've done is not trustworthy.

I don't think I'm the one who's blinded by "religion".

That linked NR article is an even bigger load of crap than the article that kicked off this thread. By a guy who's latest book is
The People Have Spoken (and They Are Wrong): The Case Against Democracy. (-cough-fascist?-cough-)

And this author starts with an inference that is more twisted than the "horse manure" comparison from the OP - that terrorism is more of a threat than AGW. Scaremongering much? Let's be honest: traffic accidents are more of a threat to the average person than terrorism. Drunk driving is more of a threat than terrorism. Domestic abuse is more of a threat than terrorism. Extension ladders are more of a threat than terrorism. Lack of healthcare coverage is(was?) more of a threat than terrorism. Of course terrorism is still a threat, and it grabs headlines. But it's not unreasonable to state that even a small amount of climate change could have broad and serious impact to many, many people.

It goes downhill from there.

He says
...the most useful indicators tell us that humanity’s prospects are on the upswing. Poverty is declining; crops are producing higher yields; and humans are living longer and healthier lives despite the mild warming we’ve experienced.
... there's a bit of progressivism at work in that, no?


then he says:
Progressives are perfectly content to surrender freedoms to fight global warming
Sez what? What freedoms? The freedom to make unrestrained profit without any regards to the mess it creates?

I'll remember how "progressives are stealing my freedom" the next time a rentacop wants to grab my junk at the airport, or wanting full access to my laptop at the border, or surveils my electronic communications without a warrant.
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