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Old 20-04-2016, 10:49   #3361
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Nice try Jack with your Link, but after reading the data, your charts are only forward looking based on continued warming temps (assuming temps are warming and will continue to do so).

No comparisons were made between the ocean levels fifty years ago and present time.
This is historical data.

That is a link, not a cut and paste.

Below is a copy and upload.

Click on any arrow and choose the linear trend for historical data.
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Old 20-04-2016, 10:52   #3362
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Haven't noticed it here in New England, Southern California, Mexico or in the Mediterranean.
Give me the location in each of the regions and I will post an historical trend for something close by.
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Old 20-04-2016, 11:11   #3363
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Addressed to the GW hysteria crowd:

Ice melts when the temperature rises. If the temp has been rising... please show evidence of where the high tide mark has changed anywhere in the world over the pat 50 years. Places other than where people have built on river deltas, on marsh land or other areas that are sinking or settling.

Haven't noticed it here in New England, Southern California, Mexico or in the Mediterranean.

Where is all the melted ice water from glaziers going??
Go to this NOAA web site. Click on any of the arrows and it will tell you how long that tide station has been in operation, how much sea level has risen during that period, and what the projected rate of increase is.

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Old 20-04-2016, 11:19   #3364
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Why the U.S. East Coast could be a major ‘hotspot’ for rising seas | Washington Post
Quote:
Writing in Nature Geoscience, John Krasting and three colleagues from the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration find that “Atlantic coastal areas may be particularly vulnerable to near-future sea-level rise from present-day high greenhouse gas emission rates.” The research adds to recent studies that have found strong warming of ocean waters in the U.S. Gulf of Maine, a phenomenon that is not only upending fisheries but could be worsening the risk of extreme weather in storms like Winter Storm Jonas.[...]

And the simulation found that at high emissions scenarios similar to current rates, the Atlantic sea levels rise considerably faster than the Pacific, with particularly noteworthy impacts for the U.S. East Coast. (Other recent research by scientists with the U.S. Geological Survey has suggested this increased rate of sea level rise is already happening — finding sea level rise rates “~ 3–4 times higher than the global average” along a large stretch of the U.S. East Coast, which the researchers dubbed a sea level rise “hotspot.”)

The reason for the difference, the researchers say, is that the Atlantic, more than the Pacific, is characterized by a strong “overturning” ocean circulation — technically known as the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, or AMOC — that spans the north-south length of the globe and ultimately connects waters off New York with those at the tip of Antarctica. This means that waters circulate through the entire Atlantic much faster than they do throughout the Pacific: A “parcel” of water that sinks beneath the surface in the Atlantic will generally make it back to the surface again in 200 to 300 years, versus about three times as long for the Pacific, Krasting explains.[...]

Another way of putting it is that the Atlantic waters “ventilate” more, plunging from the surface to great depths before eventually making their way back to the surface again. But if this circulation slows due to climate change, the study finds, less cold water will dive to ocean depths in the North and far South Atlantic (technically called “deep water formation”), leading to warmer water pooling below the surface and, ultimately, greater warming overall.[...]

Indeed, the research finds that with global emissions rates of carbon greater than 5 gigatons (or billion metric tons) per year — current emissions from industry are about 10 gigatons per year — the Atlantic circulation would slow down considerably (and sea level rise would increase there more than in the Pacific).[...]

A recent study by Saba and a group of NOAA researchers found that global warming, by slowing down the Atlantic ocean’s circulation, would lead to warmer waters off the East Coast. This change in circulation appears to shift the warm waters of the Gulf Stream northward, allowing them to enter the Gulf of Maine, which in recent years has seen dramatic warming.

And it’s not just warmer seas, but higher ones as well. For instance, one recent study found that in 2009-2010, there was a sudden “extreme” sea level spike off the U.S. East Coast. Seas rose 4 inches all of a sudden thanks to an apparently abrupt change in the Atlantic’s circulation. (Independent NASA research using satellite measurements also found that the circulation slowed during this time period).[...]
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Old 20-04-2016, 11:24   #3365
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
This is historical data.

That is a link, not a cut and paste.

Below is a copy and upload.

Click on any arrow and choose the linear trend for historical data.
With my apartment and business presently located 15 miles inland and fifty feet above sea level, according to your data.... I'm going to have to wait nearly 10,000 years to have waterfront property. That's assuming your warming model continues without interruption.


That sucks.
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Old 20-04-2016, 11:28   #3366
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
With my apartment and business presently at 15 miles inland and fifty feet above sea level, according to your data.... I'm going to have to wait nearly 10,000 years to have waterfront property. That's assuming your warming model continues without interruption.


That sucks.
This is NOAA's data, not mine.

This is only about you. Got it.

BTW - is that an admission of rising sea levels?
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Old 20-04-2016, 11:43   #3367
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
This is NOAA's data, not mine.

This is only about you. Got it.

BTW - is that an admission of rising sea levels?
6" a century is not a major concern. It could simply be that being a degree F warmer from 1900 to today that the oceans water has expanded 2mm per year. Perhaps after the Northern hemisphere started out of the little ice age in 1850

OMG... the sky is falling..... Not.

It would seem that per NOAA's data that short and long term ocean rising is not a major concern or any concern. Interesting that New Orleans ocean is rising faster. Or is it the swamp land sinking.

Got to say 3" ocean rising in 50 years is probably not something we need to concern our selfs with. Least wise, I'm not going to worry about it.
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Old 20-04-2016, 11:52   #3368
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
This is NOAA's data, not mine.

This is only about you. Got it.

BTW - is that an admission of rising sea levels?
If only the Neaderthals had been more concerned about the climate. Hand wringing, hand wringing.

We homo sapians wouldn't have replaced them.
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Old 20-04-2016, 11:58   #3369
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
6" a century is not a major concern. Least wise, I'm not going to worry about it.
That's because it's just all about you, and.......

You live on a boat.

What if the Neaderthals had been as selfish as you?
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Old 20-04-2016, 12:14   #3370
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

I have a thought experiment for all of you:

Imagine some freshwater ice cubes in a cup. Fresh water is added until the cup is full, then the ice cubes are allowed to melt. Will the water level rise, fall, or stay the same?

Why?

Next question. Same cup, same freshwater ice cubes, but this time salt water is added. Again, the ice cubes are allowed to melt. Will the water level rise, fall, or stay the same?

Why?

As it turns out this question is relevant to Global Warming. Try and figure out the results from first principles rather than by looking it up on the Internet.
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Old 20-04-2016, 12:35   #3371
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Not saying I'm on the global warming side, but it matters little as a lot of the melting ice to be concerned about is on land currently.
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Old 20-04-2016, 13:52   #3372
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Some food for thought:

Quote:

Extreme heat? Check. Ice loss? Check. Any other records we can shatter?

The world has been breaking climate records left and right. Here’s the short list:

2015 was by far the hottest year since record-keeping began in 1880, shattering the record we just set in 2014.

The first three months of 2016 have already reached new highs.


The past 11 months globally were the hottest in 137 years of records.

A record amount of the Arctic Ocean never froze this winter. And Greenland’s ice started melting at its earliest date yet.

Carbon levels in the atmosphere showed their biggest-ever annual jump last year, according to readings at NOAA’s Mauna Loa observatory.

El Niño is partly to blame for warmer-than-usual temperatures, but scientists say we wouldn’t be seeing this record-breaking streak if global warming weren’t also fueling extreme temperatures.
Extreme heat? Check. Ice loss? Check. Any other records we can shatter? | Grist
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Old 20-04-2016, 14:01   #3373
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

OK now I see why they use the 1951 to 1980 timeframe as a base thanks for posting the chart most of the years they use the average of were well below the 0°c median point.
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Old 20-04-2016, 14:30   #3374
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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OK now I see why they use the 1951 to 1980 timeframe as a base thanks for posting the chart most of the years they use the average of were well below the 0°c median point.
No you do not understand. 1981 -2010 is the current WMO standard.

Quote:
Under this model, a set of 30 year Normals updated every 10 years is
proposed. For example, 1981-2010 becomes the current base-period, until 2021, when 1991-
2020 will become the new base period, and in 2031, that 2001-2030 become the base period
and so on;
http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/wcp/cc...tenormals1.pdf
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Old 20-04-2016, 15:05   #3375
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
This is historical data.

That is a link, not a cut and paste.

Below is a copy and upload.

Click on any arrow and choose the linear trend for historical data.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...9&d=1461170809

Another unanalyzed graph from our educator, proving one or another point that we'll just have to guess. Lemme see . . . let's go with the red line this time since it's in the middle and we don't wanna be accused of being too extreme. Looks like 1970-2012, so 32 years? Starts out at 6.9 meters in 1970, and ends around . . . hard to see . . . OK, we'll call it 7.10 meters in or around 2012? Fryewe can always check my math, but I'm gettin' about 0.2 meters of sea level rise somewhere in waters around Greece over the course of 32 years. My computer tells me that's 0.66 feet (rounded off), or 7.87", and the graph itself says it avgs. 4.37 mm/year +/-4.37 mm.

All that from melting ice at the poles, huh. OK, got it. But it doesn't seem to sync with the other posted graph that claims 3" over 50 yrs. You mean they're not consistent?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
Go to this NOAA web site. Click on any of the arrows and it will tell you how long that tide station has been in operation, how much sea level has risen during that period, and what the projected rate of increase is.

How about all the down arrows Sail, and what about the down & up arrows that are in close proximity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
6" a century is not a major concern. It could simply be that being a degree F warmer from 1900 to today that the oceans water has expanded 2mm per year. Perhaps after the Northern hemisphere started out of the little ice age in 1850

OMG... the sky is falling..... Not.

It would seem that per NOAA's data that short and long term ocean rising is not a major concern or any concern. Interesting that New Orleans ocean is rising faster. Or is it the swamp land sinking.

Got to say 3" ocean rising in 50 years is probably not something we need to concern our selfs with. Least wise, I'm not going to worry about it.
Or is it 4.37 mm/year? Not only ocean water warming/cooling/expanding/contracting, but undersea earthquakes/volcanoes, and land masses sinking/rising due to various natural forces, incl. land ice extent/thickness. And oh yeah, there's no scientific certainty over how to measure sea level, but we prefer just to ignore that one. But like all these other bits of nostalgia, it's all been bandied about a 1000 posts or more ago.

So again, the issue is not as is so often misleadingly presented. It's not whether there's been warming, sea level rise, ice melt, etc., but whether there's a meaningful amount of any of it attributed to human influences. Without that component, there's not much we humans can then do about it, except be prepared.

Wait, that's it! The warmistas can't handle the notion that they cannot control the planet! An epiphany!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SailOar View Post
I have a thought experiment for all of you:

Imagine some freshwater ice cubes in a cup. Fresh water is added until the cup is full, then the ice cubes are allowed to melt. Will the water level rise, fall, or stay the same?

Why?

Next question. Same cup, same freshwater ice cubes, but this time salt water is added. Again, the ice cubes are allowed to melt. Will the water level rise, fall, or stay the same?

Why?

As it turns out this question is relevant to Global Warming. Try and figure out the results from first principles rather than by looking it up on the Internet.
I may be too conservative and therefore not smart enough for this one. But I do know that this sounds much easier to figure out in a cup than with the planet's oceans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
At least they made a casual reference to El Nino -- this time. But it seems just like Ken and others have said. Warming is climate; cooling is weather. This would be consistent, after all, with the planet being in a warming trend after all, right? But how much of it is attributable to humans?
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