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Old 19-04-2016, 13:03   #3271
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Got a chuckle out of your new avatar Sailorboy, as I did from the last one. You & Ken do a good job of reminding some of us not to take ourselves so seriously!
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Old 19-04-2016, 13:17   #3272
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by fryewe View Post
Let's give this a quick check, and assume the water in the world's oceans absorb all that energy...

The yield of the Hiroshima bomb has been estimated at about 15-17 KT of TNT equivalent...
A kiloton of TNT contains 4.184 x 10 to the 12th joules of energy. Four bombs per sec is about 8.4 x 10 to the 21st joules in a year.

It takes 4.186 joules to raise the temp of one ml (gram) of water by 1 degree C.

So that energy could raise the temp of about 2 x 10 to the 21st grams of water by 1 degree C in a year.

How much water is in the world's oceans? NOAA says 321,000,000 cubic miles, which is about 1.32 x 10 to the 9th cubic km, or 1.32 x 10 to the 18th cubic meters, or 1.32 x 10 to the 24th cc (ml/gm).

So that energy is enough to raise the temp of the world's oceans by 1/640th of a degree a year.

OMG!!!
So you are assuming that even heating will occur. Bad assumption.
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Old 19-04-2016, 13:20   #3273
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I think another 5-10 years of study will help. One of my issues with the various climate models is they only count the sun as the heat input source. Geothermal is not counted. Even though geothermal / volcanic heating is causing at least some of ice melting in greenland and antarctic and parts of the pacific. Note that there is an estimated one million volcanoes along the tectonic plates in the oceans. [...].
To add to Jackdale's comment: Solar radiation is the 900lb gorilla in the room. Geothermal heat is a mouse in comparison.


Figure 4: The volumes of the cubes are proportional to the magnitude of the energy flow from various sources. The solar irradiance is the incident energy, averaged over the area of the Earth (divided by four); irradiance varies over 11 year cycles and, at the top of recent cycles, can reach 341.7 Wm-2. The increase in anthropogenic forcing since pre-industrial times comes from the IPCC. The heat flow from the Earth’s interior is the 47 TW figure (see Figure 3 caption) averaged over the surface area. The energy flow from the human energy production is based on Flanner (2009). Tidal energy is the total energy input from the gravitational interaction between the Earth, Moon and Sun; a small part of this energy is included in the energy flow from the Earth’s interior (see below for further discussion).

Heat from the Earth’s interior does not control climate
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Old 19-04-2016, 13:27   #3274
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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So you are assuming that even heating will occur. Bad assumption.
Care to share or perhaps elaborate? Does the skepticalscience.com crowd discuss UNeven ocean warming when they liken its warming to multiple Hiroshima bombs?
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Old 19-04-2016, 13:41   #3275
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Before making rash statements, please spend some time doing some research.
Oh boy.

How odd that warm water, being less dense then cold water, rises. Basic thermodynamics. So myself, I would never expect the oceans to warm from the bottom up. That's crazy talk and would be bad science.

There has been a spot in the pacific ocean off the Oregon coast that has been warmer then surrounding ocean. Turned out there was a large undersea volcano in that exact spot. https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0504100731.htm

Now oddly enough water surface temperature over that same area is warmer then the ocean surface further away. Had some of the climate guys scratching their heads over it. It showed up on ocean surface temperature maps last year or so.

So gee, it seems that undersea volcano's CAN cause ocean surface warming. Ever wonder how many Volcano's are under the arctic?.
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Old 19-04-2016, 13:56   #3276
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Care to share or perhaps elaborate? Does the skepticalscience.com crowd discuss UNeven ocean warming when they liken its warming to multiple Hiroshima bombs?
Water temperatures vary on a global scale and by depth.

I seldom read skeptical science. You tell me.
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:02   #3277
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Oh boy.

How odd that warm water, being less dense then cold water, rises. Basic thermodynamics. So myself, I would never expect the oceans to warm from the bottom up. That's crazy talk and would be bad science.

There has been a spot in the pacific ocean off the Oregon coast that has been warmer then surrounding ocean. Turned out there was a large undersea volcano in that exact spot. https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0504100731.htm

Now oddly enough water surface temperature over that same area is warmer then the ocean surface further away. Had some of the climate guys scratching their heads over it. It showed up on ocean surface temperature maps last year or so.

So gee, it seems that undersea volcano's CAN cause ocean surface warming. Ever wonder how many Volcano's are under the arctic?.
Too bad that volcanologists disagree with your naive musings.

To answer you last question - 2.

http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/arctic-ocean.html

BTW can you please provide some sources for your assertions? That might provide you with some credibility.
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:13   #3278
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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To add to Jackdale's comment: Solar radiation is the 900lb gorilla in the room. Geothermal heat is a mouse in comparison.
Ah they are showing the average heating by convection per SF of surface area. Yep thats a tiny number and a non issue. Yet where magma is flowing, then the energy per sf would be a wee bit higher, roughly 470 watts per sf. That's a wee bit more then solar then BTW.

Yes it's localized, but even if there are only 500,000 active underwater vocano's its a bit of heat.

So the question is what percentage of greenland and antarctic ice melt that is caused by solar, by greenhouse gas and by volcanic / magma heating at or near the surface. Oddly it does have a nice effect on ice melting

The models say magma heating has no effect. I say 450 watts per sf over a local area, say the south east corner of greenland, will have an effect.
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:24   #3279
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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The models say magma heating has no effect. I say 450 watts per sf over a local area, say the south east corner of greenland, will have an effect.
Volcanologists say it have little effect.
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:29   #3280
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Too bad that volcanologists disagree with your naive musings.

To answer you last question - 2.

VolcanoDiscovery - an error occurred

BTW can you please provide some sources for your assertions? That might provide you with some credibility.
LOL, Your assuming that because they found two, that there are only two.

from Hotbed of Volcanic Activity Found Beneath Arctic Ocean

The discovery of such a thin crust in conjunction with abundant volcanic activity and hydrothermal vents is unusual, added Jokat. He said the data suggests that crustal thickness is not only a function of spreading rates but also depends on the three-dimensional character of ridge magmatism.

and Hydrothermal Vents Found in Arctic Ocean

Where they found at least nine hydrothermal vents. I'm thinking that the 1100 mile long Gakkel Ridge might just have a few more.
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:36   #3281
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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LOL, Your assuming that because they found two, that there are only two.

from Hotbed of Volcanic Activity Found Beneath Arctic Ocean

The discovery of such a thin crust in conjunction with abundant volcanic activity and hydrothermal vents is unusual, added Jokat. He said the data suggests that crustal thickness is not only a function of spreading rates but also depends on the three-dimensional character of ridge magmatism.

and Hydrothermal Vents Found in Arctic Ocean

Where they found at least nine hydrothermal vents. I'm thinking that the 1100 mile long Gakkel Ridge might just have a few more.


Nothing about increased water temperatures, melting ice or global warming. It is about tectonic activity.
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:46   #3282
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Water temperatures vary on a global scale and by depth.

I seldom read skeptical science. You tell me.
I'm not the one trying to debunk fryewe's mathematical analysis. There was never any question whether he was applying it to the entire body of the earth's oceans. There's also no question that ocean warming is uneven. So what? Or more to the point, how does the equivalent energy & warming from the Hiroshima bomb translate to ocean warming on regional or localized areas of the ocean? And how is that purported level of man-made warming significant compared to all the natural forces which affect ocean temperature?

These are the questions you decline to answer, and which go to the heart of the CC issue.
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:49   #3283
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Here you go: Researchers find major West Antarctic glacier melting from geothermal sources




and greenland Residual Volcanic Heat May Be Melting Greenland Ice - Scientific American



And Arctic: http://www.earth-of-fire.com/geology...ctic-rift.html

and :Earth Sciences: Volcanic Heating is Melting Ice Caps
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Old 19-04-2016, 14:55   #3284
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

But these articles seem to dispel the mainstream MMGW mantra concerning melting ice, and so must not be credible. I suppose we could just let the scientific community sort it out, or maybe we should call our state AG's office and simply attempt to suppress it all??
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Old 19-04-2016, 15:01   #3285
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Better than you can imagine mi amigo...
We can barely keep up with orders so I must be doing something right.
In fact...the MMGW Cultists are my best clients...how else will they have cold beer and water for showers when the Climateapocloypse hits...ha ha ha
Now that's funny!

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The more apocalyptic postings were between 1000-2000, you'll need to hunt for them yourself.
I know this...it's a communist plot to make my brain explode. The only way I can do it is to put my tin foil hat on to read all that...then I'm protected.
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