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Old 30-03-2016, 08:29   #2956
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Jack yes I read all that but read between the lines. The ice breakers break the pack into smaller pieces so the wind can move it easier.
The ice is being pushed NORTH, not south.
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Old 30-03-2016, 08:47   #2957
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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The ice is being pushed NORTH, not south.
OK jack explain that one to me and everyone else the ice is at the north pole how is it going further north? Or are you referring to the ice pieces created by icebreakers being rubbed on the edges of the multi year ice pack. ( like sand paper on a block of wood)
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Old 30-03-2016, 09:19   #2958
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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There's a few 'Options' out there.. unfortunately they've been bought out by the Oil & Motor Cartels as its against their interests for this science to advance
...and you think GW is a conspiracy?
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Old 30-03-2016, 09:38   #2959
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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OK jack explain that one to me and everyone else the ice is at the north pole how is it going further north? Or are you referring to the ice pieces created by icebreakers being rubbed on the edges of the multi year ice pack. ( like sand paper on a block of wood)
A little lesson in ice coverage:

Ice covered does not mean solid ice. NSIDC measures ice extent.

An area is considered ice covered when at least 15% of that area has ice. The other 85% can be open water.

Frequently Asked Questions on Arctic sea ice | Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis
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Old 30-03-2016, 09:59   #2960
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
A little lesson in ice coverage:

Ice covered does not mean solid ice. NSIDC measures ice extent.

An area is considered ice covered when at least 15% of that area has ice. The other 85% can be open water.

Frequently Asked Questions on Arctic sea ice | Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis
I know about how they measure I also look at the difference between 15% and 100% sea ice .
I have been in the Arctic ocean in winter I know the differences . Also I'm talking multi year vice broken first year stuff but what does how they measure have to do with breakers breaking the edges off of multi year ice creating the afore mentioned sandpaper effect and more open water to absorb solar radiation vice undisterbed solid PAC ice reflecting it?
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Old 30-03-2016, 10:00   #2961
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I know about how they measure I also look at the difference between 15% and 100% sea ice .
I have been in the Arctic ocean in winter I know the differences . Also I'm talking multi year vice broken first year stuff but what does how they measure have to do with breakers breaking the edges off of multi year ice creating the afore mentioned sandpaper effect and more open water to absorb solar radiation vice undisterbed solid PAC ice reflecting it?
Interesting hyopthesis. Any evidence?
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Old 30-03-2016, 10:23   #2962
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Meanwhile in the Arctic

Quote:
The loss of Arctic sea ice cover, due to climate change, has spurred a sharp rise in shipping traffic—as well as coast guard rescue missions—and increased the risks of oil spills, shipping accidents, and pollution, much to the apprehension of native communities who make their living on the ice.

It’s into these turbulent waters that the luxury cruise ship Crystal Serenity will set sail next August, departing from Seward, Alaska, and transiting the Bering Strait and Northwest Passage, before docking in New York City 32 days later.
Climate Change Opens Up the First Luxury Cruise Route in the Arctic | WIRED
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Old 30-03-2016, 10:27   #2963
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

I posted all that about 5 or so posts ago look at cryosphere today they measure and show % of ice cover by colors. If you look you will notice that over the last couple weeks the ice % has been decreasing rather rapidly near port areas on the Russian Arctic shorelines. But it will remain a hypothesis . I'm sure that the companies/governments that are running icebreaker activity of this nature won't be forthcoming with that information. So all we can do is watch and see how it plays out in the economic ring.
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Old 30-03-2016, 10:30   #2964
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Interesting hyopthesis. Any evidence?
Jack you just posted the evidence for commertial clearing of Arctic sea ice . See post #2962
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Old 30-03-2016, 10:32   #2965
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Its been said before. Follow the money
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Old 30-03-2016, 10:38   #2966
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Jack you just posted the evidence for commertial clearing of Arctic sea ice . See post #2962
This what an ice breaker escort looks like.



The Louis St Laurent escorting Nordic Orion on its passage through the NWP in 2013. Not much ice.

The escort lasted 36 hours. This is an email that I received from of Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Quote:

He Escort/Assist trough ice covered waters the Nordic Dorion for 35h55min in the Parry Channel from sept 20 to sept 22 2013
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Old 30-03-2016, 10:39   #2967
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Its been said before. Follow the money
Please do

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01...ie=UTF8&btkr=1

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Old 30-03-2016, 11:14   #2968
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Opps...that should cause you to be slandered a little more. I'm amazed at your thick skin.
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Old 30-03-2016, 11:14   #2969
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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This what an ice breaker escort looks like.



The Louis St Laurent escorting Nordic Orion on its passage through the NWP in 2013. Not much ice.

The escort lasted 36 hours. This is an email that I received from of Department of Fisheries and Oceans.
OK let's break this one down a bit shall we .
First the ice breaker is breaking up newly formed ice ( that will have to take time to refreeze)
Second what was the MV Nordic orion carrying yep that's right 73,500 tons of coal.
Third the trip saved $80,000 USD in fuel costs vice the panama canal route.
Like I already said its all about the money
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Old 30-03-2016, 11:27   #2970
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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OK let's break this one down a bit shall we .
First the ice breaker is breaking up newly formed ice ( that will have to take time to refreeze)
Second what was the MV Nordic orion carrying yep that's right 73,500 tons of coal.
Third the trip saved $80,000 USD in fuel costs vice the panama canal route.
Like I already said its all about the money
The ice breaker is escorting a Danish ship through the NWP to ensure Canadian sovereignty over the NWP. Both the Danish and US governments claim the NWP is international.

There is no newly formed ice in mid September of 2013. Ice restarts to reform in the Arctic in late September / early October

Charctic Interactive Sea Ice Graph | Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis

Yes, economics matters. The Manhattan trip in 1969 was not economical, the Nordic Orion was economical. What changed? Ice extent.
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